ReneH Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Hi together, for this, I have made a new threat. So Bill, Gary and Mat know about the whole story. I have taken some photos with my new endoscopic camera. Google album All images up to the image names "SPACER" (20230413213036542.jpg) are made from the lobe of the defective lifter. All images after that are made from a lobe of an intact lifter's lobe. So, what do you think? Is the cam still driveable or does it need a rework? One lobe to rework may payable here in Germany...but I'm honest...I'm not wanting to get out this cam if it isn't necessary... So, I hope you have good news for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat in tn Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 I can only say what "I" would do. I'm sorry to say that I would remove that camshaft. I do not see it mating properly with another lifter to be reliable. Another failure may certainly do more damage. it is highly unlikely that you got 15 good and one bad lifter. I still think that lifter was not free to rotate in its bore. either way a certain amount of damage is already done. save the rest by doing what is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Rene - I can't figure out which pic is which in your album as all I can see is huge long URLs, not the name for a pic. But that really doesn't matter as I'm with Matt - I'd replace the cam. I cannot imagine it being good after doing that to the lifter, and I sure wouldn't take the chance. And Matt's point about the lifter rotating is a good one. If the pic below is of the bore your bad lifter came out of then I'd check to see that the lifter will easily rotate in it. And if you can feel those grooves you may need to run a hone through it. Last, please be careful with your "language". I want this to be a family-friendly forum, and frequently send my grandkids links here. So just inserting an asterisk or two doesn't hide what you are saying. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Rene', several items, first, when you look at the cam lobes through the lifter bores, none of them should be centered in the bores, they should be offset toward one side. This, along with the shape of the cam lobe "nose" is what makes the lifters rotate. Second, all 16 lifters should be able to spin freely in their bores so that the cam lobes acting against them will spin them and their push rods. Third, the tips of the lobes are not perfectly parallel to the center line of the cam, they are slightly angled, again, to make the lifters rotate in their bores. If any of these are not correct, one or more lifters and cam lobes will rapidly destroy themselves. You can put the lifters in the correct bores and with the plugs out so the engine will turn freely, first observe the lifters without the push rods and rockers installed to see if the cam is rotating them (a mark on the top of the lifter will allow you to check all 16 easily. If any one is not rotating you have a problem with that cam lobe. If that test is satisfactory, then reinstall push rods and rockers and repeat. Again all 16 lifters need to rotate with their push rods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 Rene', several items, first, when you look at the cam lobes through the lifter bores, none of them should be centered in the bores, they should be offset toward one side. This, along with the shape of the cam lobe "nose" is what makes the lifters rotate. Second, all 16 lifters should be able to spin freely in their bores so that the cam lobes acting against them will spin them and their push rods. Third, the tips of the lobes are not perfectly parallel to the center line of the cam, they are slightly angled, again, to make the lifters rotate in their bores. If any of these are not correct, one or more lifters and cam lobes will rapidly destroy themselves. You can put the lifters in the correct bores and with the plugs out so the engine will turn freely, first observe the lifters without the push rods and rockers installed to see if the cam is rotating them (a mark on the top of the lifter will allow you to check all 16 easily. If any one is not rotating you have a problem with that cam lobe. If that test is satisfactory, then reinstall push rods and rockers and repeat. Again all 16 lifters need to rotate with their push rods. Hi Bill, hi Matt, first of all...sorry for my choice of words...I've corrected it... So comparing both of your answers, I should remove the cam and replace it. I have three options about that. 1. I can ask a friend to rework the currently Installed camps bad lobe. 2. I can use my original 302 cam (images will follow) 3. I can buy a new 351W cam and replace the installed one... What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 Rene - I can't figure out which pic is which in your album as all I can see is huge long URLs, not the name for a pic. But that really doesn't matter as I'm with Matt - I'd replace the cam. I cannot imagine it being good after doing that to the lifter, and I sure wouldn't take the chance. And Matt's point about the lifter rotating is a good one. If the pic below is of the bore your bad lifter came out of then I'd check to see that the lifter will easily rotate in it. And if you can feel those grooves you may need to run a hone through it. Last, please be careful with your "language". I want this to be a family-friendly forum, and frequently send my grandkids links here. So just inserting an asterisk or two doesn't hide what you are saying. OK, option replacing the cam. These are currently available for me: This is the currently installed one: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-35-255-5 Or I can get this one: https://www.rockauto.com/de/moreinfo.php?pk=10211336&cc=1105951&pt=5260&jsn=8 So I will ask summit for an offer, cause of the defective cam...It's worth a try... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 Rene', several items, first, when you look at the cam lobes through the lifter bores, none of them should be centered in the bores, they should be offset toward one side. This, along with the shape of the cam lobe "nose" is what makes the lifters rotate. Second, all 16 lifters should be able to spin freely in their bores so that the cam lobes acting against them will spin them and their push rods. Third, the tips of the lobes are not perfectly parallel to the center line of the cam, they are slightly angled, again, to make the lifters rotate in their bores. If any of these are not correct, one or more lifters and cam lobes will rapidly destroy themselves. You can put the lifters in the correct bores and with the plugs out so the engine will turn freely, first observe the lifters without the push rods and rockers installed to see if the cam is rotating them (a mark on the top of the lifter will allow you to check all 16 easily. If any one is not rotating you have a problem with that cam lobe. If that test is satisfactory, then reinstall push rods and rockers and repeat. Again all 16 lifters need to rotate with their push rods. About the bores of the lifters: I have checked all before inserting the lifters. I also checked the abilitiy to rotate. Every single lifter slides in perfectly and also rotates while spinning...so I can't imagine that this was the problem...as re-assembling the engine, I have done the most check-ups twice to be sure not to come to a point as I'm at now...but sometimes all checks won't help...that's why I'm so scared about the video you have posted, Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 About the bores of the lifters: I have checked all before inserting the lifters. I also checked the abilitiy to rotate. Every single lifter slides in perfectly and also rotates while spinning...so I can't imagine that this was the problem...as re-assembling the engine, I have done the most check-ups twice to be sure not to come to a point as I'm at now...but sometimes all checks won't help...that's why I'm so scared about the video you have posted, Bill. I think going back to Summit is a good idea. Surely they've had others with similar problems. And if the lifters rotate in the bores then that' not the problem. Must have been the cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat in tn Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 I think going back to Summit is a good idea. Surely they've had others with similar problems. And if the lifters rotate in the bores then that' not the problem. Must have been the cam. contacting summit as a means of doing research is a great idea. understanding that any and all warranty may easily be dismissed as "installation error". I'm not taking sides, but they may if approached wrong. bill explained a good test of lifter rotation and that test relies heavily on a good bore/fit and good oil. i do this and i also set the engine at an angle on the stand to allow lifters to be vertical for each bank . as being on an angle while just the lifters are installed they may not have enough weight to rotate. it is splitting hairs I know. but it can find very small differences. too tight rockers or too heavy valve springs are not good for break in either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 contacting summit as a means of doing research is a great idea. understanding that any and all warranty may easily be dismissed as "installation error". I'm not taking sides, but they may if approached wrong. bill explained a good test of lifter rotation and that test relies heavily on a good bore/fit and good oil. i do this and i also set the engine at an angle on the stand to allow lifters to be vertical for each bank . as being on an angle while just the lifters are installed they may not have enough weight to rotate. it is splitting hairs I know. but it can find very small differences. too tight rockers or too heavy valve springs are not good for break in either. Yes, I'm also very exited about summits answer... As I'm using all stocks (springs, rockers, etc.) and have tighten the rockers ad specified, I also can't imagine that one of these parts are guilty...I also have turned the engine by hand many times at the stand as checking the valve clearance... I also have used a special break-in oil and done a change after the break-in...so in my opinion I have done, what's possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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