Gary Lewis

David - Thanks! That's Steve's truck. Steve - That's my excuse as to why I was mixing up "left" and "right".

I think it's opposite, because they didn't just "add a leaf spring". They also deleted the radius arm, which is why the TTB's motion was so wonky to begin with. With radius arms, the hinge lines are diagonal (from the axle pivot through the RA bushing, but NOT along either's axis); with leaf packs, the hinge lines are parallel to the truck's axis (straight through the axle pivot bolt). So with leaves, there's almost no caster change through the wheel's travel; with radius arms, the caster, camber, toe, track width, and even WHEELBASE changes through the travel. You're not wrong about the wonky steering geometry changes with a coil sprung TTB. But overall the changes don't tend to be significant, at least in terms of how they work in a street-driven truck (with minimal wheel motion) or in a desert racer (with lots of wheel motion, but driven on relatively forgiving surfaces as far as steering geometry is concerned. But with the leaf-sprung TTB, the rear half of the leaf spring acts essentially like a radius arm, forcing the outer end of the axle to move fore-and-aft as it moves up-and-down. And with the essentially flat spring at ride height, that "radius arm" actually gets shorter as the wheel moves up or down, so it pulls the axle back even more than a radius arm would. So if anything, even just the rear half of the leaf spring is worse than a radius arm. By even worse than that, the leaf spring also has a front half. As the axle moves up-and-down the axle swinging around its pivot makes the spring pad move right-to-left. The rear end of the spring is fixed to the frame so the front end of the spring tries to move right-to-left twice as much as the spring pad. But the front end of the spring is also tied to the frame through the shackle. That's why the leaf spring TTB is fighting itself, and why I believe it inherently can't give good wheel travel. Bob - There's no reason to quit talking about this. I'm not in the least worried about the thread, so please have at it. However, let me say that your analysis is good theory. But, it is theory only since there isn't enough up/down movement of the axle to write home about. Seriously, what I found in the spring/bump stop clearance boggled my mind. That is absolutely insane.

Yup, there's so little travel that nothing can change. I can't even slide my pointer finger between the bump stop and the spring as the knuckle is too large. And I've measured my knuckle at less than 3/4". While the bump stop isn't directly at the axle, so there's more movement at the axle, and there is twisting motion that may account for a bit more, I can't see more than 1 or 1 1/2" of wheel travel at most. I'm not a fan. Anyway, here's the morning update: The lady at Mingo Salvage does not have any SuperDuty springs The D60 that I found on eBay, but which is close to me at Catoosa, is really a 4.10 instead of the 3.54 as advertised. The D60 in OKC that Shaun found is a 3.54 and has the tie rods on it, but there is nothing else with it. They do not have the track bar, the track bar bracket/mount, the driver's side u-bolt plate, nada. (So, what do they do? Pull an axle and crush the rest of the stuff that is absolutely necessary for a swap?) So I think Jim's plan is the best: Work on what I have and keep my eyes open for a complete F350. Maybe one with a bad engine or tranny. Or that has been wrecked. That way I'll have all the parts and won't have to piece this thing together.

Welcome! Glad you found us! Where's home? I ask because we have a member's map (Bullnose Forum/Member's Map in the menu) and I'd be more than happy to add you. You are welcome to post pics of your baby in this thread, but you may want to start a thread about your truck in the main section. More people will see it that way and we like to follow along, provide suggestions, encourage you, etc.

Ok, this is now in the main section. If the air pump can't be turned by hand it is apparently is seized so there's no reason to put a belt on it. It injects air into the exhaust to help it burn when passing through the catalytic converter, so it isn't absolutely necessary. But, the truck wouldn't pass emissions testing. As for adjusting the belts, I like to see ~1/2" of flex when pushing firmly with my finger. But that is not at all scientific. And I'd rather have a belt a bit loose than a bit tight since too tight can hurt the bearings. Also, when you have two belts on the same device, like your alternator, they should be bought as a set or pair. Belts aren't held to a very close tolerance and buying two run of the mill belts rather than a pair will frequently have one of them tight and the other loose. But it is hard to find paired belts.

One thing I had at least a little wrong back then is that the beam actually does let the axle move front-to-back. That's why coil spring TTBs still work so well, even with a radius arm. But a radius arm does allow the axle to move right-to-left, and I'm still confident I'm right about a leaf spring fighting that, so overall I still stand by what I said then. Keep in mind that's adding 1.5" to a stock F-350, which already rides about 2" higher than a stock F-250. I think Big Blue might already have a front lift, so I'm not saying you'll be lifting him 3.5". Just trying to clarify. Bob - I had assumed that there was some flex in the bushings, if not the TTB itself, that lets the axle move a bit. And I can see that the springs can act as torsion bars and twist. Plus there's flex in their bushings. But there's just no way to get around that the geometry of the 4wd F250's front suspension is just ... wonky. I've frequently wondered why so many people bad-mouth the TTB's. But I was thinking of the F150's TTB's, not that of the F250's. And now that I have thought about the difference it is night and day. With coil springs TTB's make sense, but add a leaf spring and they just don't. And then there's the ride. I was originally giddy about getting Big Blue and then getting him running. And even after driving him for a bit I assumed that the horrible ride was just the way "big trucks" ride. Then I rode in a later F350 and was blown away with the ride. My mind is made up, so please don't confuse me with any more "facts". As for the lift, I don't think BB has one. I really thing everything under it is stock. However, 3.5" in front will level him out with the current rear springs, so when I pull some leaves out I may have to bring the rear up a bit. But I'll wait to worry about that until I get everything together and find out how it sits. Anyway, our plans for the day have changed. We are under a severe thunderstorm watch and the National Weather Service has just raised the threat level for us, with large hail, high winds, several inches of rain, and tornadoes likely. So, I'll be making my calls and will postpone the trip to 4wd Parts until tomorrow or even Wednesday.

That's interesting as Tim bought the rights to the discontinued RS-333 and is having them made in Australia. I wonder if he's marketing through Summit or if that is old stock.

I can attest to this! I don't even have a bullnose, but I sure respect the expertise, and also the similarities to my 93! And sometimes we do some what-if testing. In this case it is "What if a heavy trailer is pulled by a 302/E4OD/3.55 combo with an unknown trailer connector and brake controller". Turns out the combo works nicely.

Good point, Jim. And, by the way, I should have said in my post last night that I've gotten really good advice on here. So I've revised that post to say, among other things: Also, I did get a response from '89F2urd. Here is the salient info: What I forgot to tell him is that my springs and bushings are new, and the bushings are poly. So he's saying that a simple lift would solve the problem. But while that would provide more space between the spring and the bump stop I doubt it would make much difference. I say that because the spring is apparently stiff enough to only flex very little on a bump, so just because it no longer hits the stop shouldn't make much difference. And, the lift does nothing to resolve the inherit physics problems of a leaf-sprung TTB, as explained by Bob. So, I'm still convinced that a D60 is the way to go. I'll report back on what I find out today.

Bob - No prob. I have a ways to go before decided on the actuator. But your thoughts really help. Thanks. I've now done a TON of reading on various forums, and given the good advice I've gotten here as well as what I've read elsewhere am convinced the D60 is the way to go. Here are some of the MANY posts from elsewhere that helped me make my mind up. This one explains in terms I can easily understand why what I have cannot work well: Some guy that thinks he's Nothing Special: The problem with the F-250 TTB is the combination of TTB with leaf springs. As the suspension cycles the beam makes the end of the axle swing in one arc (around the beam pivot, moving the axle end right to left as it moves up and down) and the spring makes it swing in another (around the fixed end of the spring, moving the axle end front to back as it moves up and down). The beam won't let the axle end move front to back and the spring greatly resists right to left, so the suspension binds up. It is a terrible design, but overall it does work. Some people even like it. Rebuilding and keeping an F-250 TTB isn't the worst thing in the world to do. But most people do think the F-350 solid axle setup, which doesn't bind up, rides better even though it's a 1 ton compared to the TTB 3/4 ton. This one states what I've observed with Big Blue's TTB: Diesel Brad: a Solid axle will ride better than the TTB just for the fact it actually has suspension travel. The TTB rides so bad because there is about 1" of travel before it hits the bump stops. It is that sudden stop that makes it ride so harsh. If you want a great ride with MINIMAL lift go Solid axle and RSK. It is unbelievable how smooth they ride And it adds 1.5" to the stock height of a F350 with the proper springs And then here's Diesel Brad's shopping list: So now it is a question of how I acquire the parts - piecemeal or by getting an F350 and disassembling it. We shall see.

You don't want a 160. Ford put 195's in everything and that's what I use. But if I wanted cooler I'd not go colder than 180.

Yes, the 'stat from Tim doesn't need the brass plate for an M-block. Only the Cleveland needs it. And, they are pricey, but well worth it to get the cooling system to operate properly.

For one thing my Bronco already had on-board air, so it's not like I had the extra expense of adding an air compressor as well. But I understand your intent is to have an air compressor on Big Blue, so you'll be at essentially the same starting point as I was. So for my thought process... Why an OX? I wanted a selectable, so that narrowed my choices. In fact, I'm only aware of 3: ARB, OX and Eaton e-locker. I've heard of quite a few people having trouble with e-lockers not engaging (usually traced back to a bad electrical connection). And I know of two different types of e-lockers. Some have sprag clutches which unlock and then relock each time you change direction. I really wouldn't want that and I didn't feel like educating myself enough to make sure that I wouldn't be getting that style. So I ruled out the e-locker. Between the other two, I've heard mostly good things about ARB, and only good things about OX. Not enough difference there to make a decision on. What I liked about the OX was that it's purely mechanical, and therefore a little simpler. Not that the ARB is overly complex, or inherently unreliable. Just that the OX is simpler (OX is simpler than the e-locker too). So that relatively short thought process brought me to the OX. Why air actuated? OX has 4 actuation means (well, 5 really). You can control them with: a push-pull cable, an add-on electric actuator in the standard cover, an add-on air actuator in the standard cover, or an air actuator that's built into a special cover. (The fifth method is a bolt that you screw into the cover. You can do this in place of any of the 4 methods listed above. It's not at all convenient, but a great fall-back to have if something happens to disable the primary actuator. This is another feature I liked about the OX.) I ruled out the push-pull cable, even though it's the simplest design, because it seemed like it would be harder to mount the lever and route the cable (which can't be kinked). The electrical actuator and the add-on air actuator both end up with a fairly big, heavy thing cantilevered out of the diff cover. I figured that was an inherent disadvantage with the possibility of hitting it and breaking it off, or even just what would happen as it vibrated over the course of tens of thousands of miles. I should emphasize here, that this was an argument in my own mind that "just made sense." I know a lot of people use that phrase to strengthen their argument. I use it to point out that the only thing supporting the argument is that it makes sense. I don't have a shred of evidence to say that either method has any inherent risk. So take it for what it's worth. But whatever the validity of that argument, I decided to go with the special cover with the integral air actuator. It has a piston in a bore, so you just screw an air line fitting in the cover and if you supply pressure it engages and if you remove pressure it disengages. It does have the inherent risk of the seal going bad and leaking air into the diff housing (which the add-on actuator can't do). But that's what I went with. As far as hooking up controls for it, it wasn't much harder to do than if I had gone with the electric actuator. OX supplied an on/off valve that looks and mounts like a toggle switch, so I just needed to run air to and from it rather than wires. I already had an air line available on the floor under the dash, so it wasn't hard to tap into that for the supply. And running the air line to the diff wasn't any harder than running a wire would've been. Jim - I doubt the Trutrac or the D44HD will fetch much, but I'll be selling it for whatever I can get. As I will the T19. Bob - I didn't realize that the electric actuator hung off the side. Guess I need to do more research. But I can go with air as there are inexpensive 12v solenoid valves that I could use so I can install a switch in the cab to control the locker. Assuming the storms aren't too bad in the morning we are headed into Tulsa and I plan to consult with the folks at 4wd Parts. They sell and install both ARB and Ox, so I'll get their input, prices, etc.

I wrapped that fitting up in the thick yellow pipe tape today. Tighten, steer, repeat, until I finally saw no more seepage. Ended up with it a lot tighter than I expected. Glad you got it sorted. I hate leaks! As for the 3.50, lots of the trucks with a 9" rear also had 3.50 fronts.

Congrat's! One layer of the onion peeled. Soon you'll have a mess of onion rings!

Nope, your current springs are 52" long, the SD springs are 56" long. I didn't mean w/o changing the mounts/shackles. Instead, what I meant was to replace the current springs with SD springs and add the SD RSK.

Just a suggestion to look to Travers Tool or Enco if you needed the marking paste, and an alternative. Jim - The $2k that would be saved by using SuperDuty springs on my TTB's includes $800 for the D60 and $1200 for the Ox locker. You make a good point. I could replace the cross member, rebuild the engine, and even install it and wire it up if that won't cause problems with installing a different front axle. Meanwhile looking for an F350 for the axle, suspension, and for that matter t-case. (I think I have the right front driveshaft from the F350 that the ZF5 came from.) I've not made any decisions about the front axle, and really don't need to make any for quite some time as there's plenty of work to be done. But I'm just trying to work through the options and the costs thereof. So, perhaps waiting to see what comes from the searches I've kicked off would be the best approach. Perhaps they'll turn up the F350 and I'll have everything needed. However, even then I'll need to decide on the RSK, which is $450, and the locker, which is $1200. Again, thanks for the help thinking through this.

I think you have poor math. I count several steps forward and only one back - the intake leak. But, I do know the feeling. And when I get "there" it is time for a break from the truck, or the shop, or ..... And a few days later things look a whole lot better.

I'm not ready to spend the big bucks for real cover right now as I'm spending money left, right, and center on Big Blue. So I'm looking for a cheap solution to keep the fine dust off of Dad's truck while I work on BB. But, I do have a roll of plastic sheeting that I can try. However, my guess is that the A/C in the shop is going to blow it around. I'll give it a shot and see.

Same here on the explaining of folders and the lock down in projects. I do think the "show folder" needs to be looked at and worked over a little. Maybe have a main folder "shows & gatherings" and then inside it would be like the project folder where each folder would be about the show or gathering. You could make it locked down or not by who ever posted it. Out on the main page you can still see if there is a new unseen post in any of the folders because of the different color of the date or time it was posted. Dave ---- Thanks Dave. I do intend to make that folder for Shows, plural, and have sub-folders under it.

You are on the right track as you've picked out the right bolts to loosen. As for the alternator, only the 40 and 60 amp alternators were used on the F-Series. So, as shown here (Engines/Drive Belts) you either need the ones for A/C or w/o A/C. And, do you want me to move this to the main section?

I've only ever heard one person say that the F-250s TTB can be made into a good riding suspension. I don't say that to discourage you, but if you want good info on how to make Big Blue ride well, that one person might be the one to talk to. (For what it's worth, as I've said here before, I really don't think my '97 F-250 rides that bad. But I wouldn't be one to argue that it has a particularly good ride.) Anyway, I think the guy I'm thinking of goes by the screen name '89F2urd on FTE. I'f I'm remembering the correct person, he's argued several times that a lifted F-250, still on leaf springs, can have a good ride if done well. You might want to see if you can find out what he has to say about it. edit to add: I did a quick search on FTE for posts with TTB in them by '89F2urd. That's definitely the guy I was thinking of. All I found in my quick scan was that he does not recommend a shackle reversal with TTB, and that he recommends about a 2" - 3" lift. That certainly isn't enough info to answer your questions, but it's a start. Bill - That's the sort of thing I do not want to get into. With the EFI and everything else I have planned, I don't want to take the time to work on a differential myself. Saying it another way, I can hire that done, but I probably can't hire the EFI system done. Bob - I've PM'd the guy on FTE, and will do some searching for all he's posted re TTB's. Thanks. Also, you went with an air-powered Ox. Did they not have the electric shift available then? If so, why not use it? As said, I hope to use an F600's radio bezel with room for several switches and readouts above them, so it seems reasonable to go with an electric one.

Does the OX need professional installation? For most people I'd answer this "If you need to ask, then you probably shouldn't do it yourself". But Gary, you aren't most people. You just need to ask. I get that! But seriously, it's not a job for the faint-of-heart, or the impatient. I installed an OX in the front Dana 44 of my Bronco last year. Here's a link to my project thread on another forum (the OX install starts at post #96). As I understand the Dana 60 goes about the same as a 44, except that the parts are bigger and heavier. "They say" you need a case spreader to pull the case open so the diff will drop in and out. If you have a diff spreader (and they can be made pretty easily if you're of a mind to) I'd certainly use it. But you can pry the diff out and tap it in with a mallet too. You need some slightly specialized tools (a magnetic base dial indicator and a torque wrench that reads in lb-in), as well as a way for the lb-in torque wrench to turn the pinion. And you need gear marking compound (I guess "Prussian Blue" used to be the go-to, but all I've ever seen in pictures is the yellow grease I used, which was hard to find). You need a way to press the bearings on (a hydraulic press makes it much easier). And while "they say" that set-up bearings make it possible to do without pulling and reinstalling bearings, I found that not to be true, so a bearing puller is probably needed. Nothing about installing a diff is rocket science, but it is putzy work, trying to get the shims in the right places to get everything right. Check out my thread (linked above) to see what I went through. And I wasn't changing the gearing, so I just left the pinion gear where it was. If you are changing gears when you install the diff you'll need to get the pinion depth adjusted too. That will be more of the same as getting the carrier shims correct. So should you do it yourself? Gary, for you I would NOT suggest that if the goal is to save money. Yes, doing it yourself will save money, but I think you are well enough off that you won't value the several hundred bucks enough to be worth the hassle. On the other hand, if you just want to do it because you like working on your truck, then go for it. I'm sure you are up to it, as long as you are committed to it. If you are doing it yourself, definitely do it out of the vehicle. It will be a lot easier to get in a comfortable position to work on it. If you are taking it in, as Shaun said, it's mostly a matter of whether you want to take the truck or just the axle to the shop. The cost likely won't be significantly different either way. I'll take this question to mean "Should I install a front locker for my use?" I'd answer that yes, you should, but you don't really need to. I've done almost all of my fourwheeling with a rear automatic locker and an open front, and that works out pretty well (your rear TrueTrac won't be quite as effective, but will still do pretty well paired with an open front). But after putting the OX in the front of my Bronco I've learned first-hand how beneficial it really is. When you stick a front tire against a rock that will test your articulation (probably more of an issue with my Bronco that your F-250 if you can believe that), the front locker lets the tire just walk over rather than needing to get the right combination of line and momentum with the open diff (and with a TrueTracs a rear locker that difference would be a little more important). You have a winch, which will almost always be a good tool to get you past a spot where you might need a front locker. With an open front you'll probably be able to go anywhere you want to / should go. But if you have the locker you won't need to "pull rope" as often and it'll be easier. Jim - I think I have a tube of the yellow stuff I bought decades ago when I was going to set up a diff on a VW kombi, which didn't happen. Bob - I have all the tools but the case spreader, and even a 4-jaw chuck, which I have never used but know how to do from my class a few years ago. But, having read through your post on FTE, I agree that's something I'd rather not do as it is too time consuming. So the game plan for tomorrow is to call the outfit in OKC and get pricing on all of the bits previously discussed, inc both the F350 and SD springs. And, call the local salvage back and see if they have the SD springs. Plus call the salvage that has the DRW axle and see which of their advert's is right - 3.54 or 4.10, although it is pretty sure to be 4.10. Then, assuming the storms hold off, we are headed into Tulsa and I'm going to stop by 4WD Parts and talk with them to see what they carry, what their price would be to install, etc. (There may be less expensive places in town, but their prices on parts and labor should give me a good idea of what the prices will be.) And all that info will let me put together the all-up cost and help me make a decision. However, I'll ask again: Is it not possible to put a set of, say, SD springs on the TTB's I have and gain some decent articulation & ride but save $2k? It would seem that an RSK and the longer springs would not only put some distance between the spring and bump stop, but also let the tire move to the rear and be much more supple. Or, said another way, is the D60/SD springs/Sky kit worth the $2k to get the ride, articulation, etc?

Yes, most of those parts will probably need replacement and it's better to replace them now than later. Doing the locker with the axle out means that if you have to take it to a shop for professional installation, you're only taking an axle housing, and not an entire truck. Which would you rather do? Ahhh! Here I was thinking the D60 is a pumpkin, but then I remember that the Ox comes with a new cover. So, it isn't a pumpkin. Good point.

LOL! You are a source of such needed information! I'm glad to know the etymology of the word maroon. Seriously, I like knowing random stuff. So red is DS-I. Interesting. As said, I've never seen one of those. But, if I remember correctly, they were primarily used in CA, so that would explain why in the middle of the US I've not seen one.