keepin 'Ole Red' relevant

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keepin 'Ole Red' relevant

gjb298
Long story short, this is an 86 F150. My father was the original owner. Base truck w/ 300 and 4-spd granny, hubcaps, bedliner, and stereo upgrade were all that was done to her for 30 years. Been in two accidents. Both times, we have taken it completely apart, removed the trim, removed the bed, and restored it right. 14 months ago, we started giving her new life. I pulled the engine\tranny and towed it to the mechanic with the upgrade to a 351W w/ C6 auto conversion. The goal was to only add what was originally offered. Well, anyone trying to buy anything in the last year can tell you EVERYTHING is a scavenger hunt. It took 8 months to find a crate engine. Took 3 more months to find all of the parts (MANY had to be salvaged from all over Georgia) and more than 3 months to get her back on the road. I will add more pics later. I paid someone to do the installation as I am no mechanic. That said, we have a few gremlins and I need some help.

The first item is the instrumentation cluster will not light up. Years ago we switched the incandescent bulbs to LED and it worked fine until now. It was daylight when I got the truck back so I did not notice this for a week or so. I have confirmed that the fuse is fine. The idiot lights were working (blinkers, hi-beam, etc) until this past weekend. I tried last weekend to remove the instrument cluster for this issue and to solve the inaccurate tachometer issue. I had found an article on adding an extra ground wire to the tach terminals to properly support a V8 and that worked. I have not been able to disconnect the speedometer cable (any help here would be appreciated. I watched several YT videos but no dice). Trying to do all of this when I could not fully remove the cluster, I damaged the copper traces on the printed circuit. Several of them have separated from the paper and 2 are pretty crumpled. The number on the original PC is E1TF-10C956-C and there is an "A" below. I have looked at multiple sites. I am leaning towards ordering a new PC from LMC and based on the description, I think that i need to order 49-6281 but they call this a "D" and based on OEM number, I just am not sure.

So, my questions are, how do I disconnect the speedometer cable so I can do this properly? Which PC is the right one?

Bonus question in case I still have your attention, regarding the temp gauge, I currently have an external one working. The one in the cluster would spike immediately on cranking. I actually had acquired another cluster to obtain the "auto gear indicator" that we added to the original cluster. The mechanic tried this cluster just to see if the temp gauge on mine was bad. Both acted identically. My research makes me think the gauge is not the issue but unsure the next best steps to take.

Thanks in advance!




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Re: keepin 'Ole Red' relevant

Gary Lewis
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First, I'm glad you are keeping the truck in the family!  

Second, on the temp gauge does it really spike "immediately"?  I ask because that's hard to do with one of these gauges.  They are actually thermometers and there's a heating coil that heats the bi-metallic spring to move the needle.  So if it really spikes immediately then that heating coil must be getting really HOT.  It should just leisurely make its way up.

Do the fuel and oil pressure gauges work correctly?  They run off the same instrument cluster voltage regulator, a misnomer if there ever was one, and if they are working correctly then the ICVR is working.

If so, then you should pull the wire off the temp sender, ground it, and then turn the key on.  If the gauge goes up as before then it is probable that you have a bad temp sender.  But you can do another test to prove that.  The oil pressure sender is supposed to have the same resistance as the temp sender, so you can connect the temp gauge to the oil pressure sender and vice versa.  Did the problem follow the sender?

As for getting the speedo cable off, go to the page at Documentation/Driveline/SPEEDOMETER GEARS, CABLES, & SENSORS and then to the Speedo Cable tab.  There are directions there on how to do it.

Last is the printed circuit.  Sometimes you can repair them with Super Glue.  But if that doesn't work you need to replace it.  Below is from our page at Documentation/Electrical/Gauges and you can see that you have a circuit that is for gauges but w/o a tach.  But you say you have a tach?  Is it part of the printed circuit?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: keepin 'Ole Red' relevant

gjb298
Thank you Gary (for replying and running this!!!) The funny thing is my dad actually said he would buy the truck back if I ever sell it!

on the temp gauge, to be honest I will have to call the mechanic who did the work. Since I got it back we have had the external gauge.. so I will verify.. I will also try the sender ground\swap test

Fuel and oil pressure and ammeter all work fine

re: the speedo article, again thank you.. I thought i had searched thoroughly but my search skills must be lacking

on the printed circuit, I do plan to try and repair first but just wanted to be sure on the replacement in case i have to go that route. this is still confusing as the truck was originally a manual, had a tachometer yet it has the CA PC.. I would I would replace with the same PC but I have a working tach. Strange?!

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Re: keepin 'Ole Red' relevant

Gary Lewis
Administrator
That is strange.  But I've seen a number of errors in Ford's Master Parts Catalog, so I'm not blown away with it.

But you may find someone on here that has the printed circuit you need.

As for not finding the bit about the speedo cable, I'm the one that puts things on here so I'm more likely to know where they are.  And even I wasn't sure I'd really done that - although I seem to remember having done it.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: keepin 'Ole Red' relevant

gjb298
great... Thanks again. and now, seeing your documentation, the videos make much more sense. I will give it a shot next weekend! Have a great day
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Re: keepin 'Ole Red' relevant

ArdWrknTrk
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In reply to this post by gjb298
Welcome!  

1) I'm going to suggest that your illumination problem is with the headlight switch. On the back of the switch is a wire-wound variable resistor (like a spring) and a little metal tab that the shaft of the knob passes through.
So the knob spins the tab (contact) around the spring changing the amount of electricity that reaches the instrument cluster lights.
Sometimes the tab falls off, and sometimes the spring breaks.
Either way you get no instrument lights.
But if the lights on your climate control or the light behind your headlamp and lights switch bezel dim with the knob, then your problem must be with the cluster.
(If you need to install a gear indicator anyhow it might be easier and cheaper to swap the whole cluster?)

2) On the Speedo cable is a plastic retaining collar that latches to the back of the instrument.
This has an indented tab that applies pressure, and you need to push the collar (sideways) against it to release from the Speedo.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: keepin 'Ole Red' relevant

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by gjb298
Oh, bonus...
Check to see if the temp gauge spikes with the sender unplugged.
If it does, the wire must be shorted to ground somewhere.
Maybe the wire got pinched or chafed in the engine bay?
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: keepin 'Ole Red' relevant

gjb298
Thank you! will check both of these. I have to remove the cluster to fix the contacts that I accidentally crumpled but will definitely check the light switch too.
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Re: keepin 'Ole Red' relevant

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
This post was updated on .
Here in this picture of the headlamp switch from Jeff's Bronco Graveyard you can see the copper wiper that will ride along the spring as you turn the knob to dim the lights.

You have to push a button on the bottom in to pull the knob and shaft out the front so you can undo the nut holding the switch to the frame of the dash.



And here is the schematic from the EVTM showing how the dimmer in the headlamp switch controls brightness to the dashboard illumination.



Note: fuse 17 (5A) covers all of this, but not the interior dome light, which is turned on by the dimmer knob (beyond full bright) but not part of the same electrical circuit.

And that contact #5 of cluster plug A is the one for illumination circuit 19, the light blue and red wire
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: keepin 'Ole Red' relevant

gjb298
awesome! Thank you very much!! This is my son's truck so I have to catch him at home to get a chance to check these out. I really appreciate the illustration.
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Re: keepin 'Ole Red' relevant

FuzzFace2
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
ArdWrknTrk wrote
Oh, bonus...
Check to see if the temp gauge spikes with the sender unplugged.
If it does, the wire must be shorted to ground somewhere.
Maybe the wire got pinched or chafed in the engine bay?
Yes this is the way to test if the wire is shorted or not.

Gary had you shorting the wire to ground and this would also peg the needle to hot if the key was left on for a little bit.
I have never seen the oil / fuel / temp gauge go from 0 to full when turning on the key even with the wires shorted to ground, they move up about the same speed they do down when the key is turned off.

I wonder if the printed board is bad to send full volts to the temp gauge?
I dont think I would worry about the part numbers when getting a new printed board, just get it for the cluster type. lights / gauges / gauges w/tach.
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100