TFI Ignition Rehab

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
20 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

TFI Ignition Rehab

ratdude747
This post was updated on .
Last week I bought myself an early birthday present in the form of some upgraded TFI iginition parts for my 1984 4.9.

Parts list:


Used parts bought off of Nickelplate on the classified forum:

-McCully Racing Remote TFI Kit, With a 3rd party TFI module and (made by somebody else) dummy TFI module and breakout cable.
-MSD 8227 TFI Blaster Coil


New from RockAuto:

-United Motor Products 28624 Premium Tuneup Kit (Cap, rotor, wires, and accessories)

In addition to these being intended to be an upgrade, I was having an issue where I was getting random misfires under load and every time I'd stomp the gas, the engine would faceplant. I confirmed that my accelerator pump was spitting fuel so I ruled that out for the latter.

I performed and completed the install last night. Here's some pics:

Remote TFI installation: I decided to install it under the cruise control servo:





Yes, it does clear the bracket:



Dummy TFI module installed:



After that I swapped the cap, rotor, and wires. The wires had been swapped recently and the coil/rotor a bit less so, but I couldn't remember where I used "good" parts and where I used "get me on the road" parts. Not to mention this brand's premium caps and rotors are blue, which IMHO looks good on my engine!

After all of that, it ran but still had the "faceplant" issue (wasn't able to test drive anywhere to test the other issue). So, the next move was to swap my cheap parts store coil for the MSD. I hadn't swapped it initially because after buying it I found a lot of reviews stating they were trouble. But, I figured it was worth a shot... and per some test driving today, voila, no more faceplant!

Final pics of the setup:





One note- see that old looking cap screw? That's because I destroyed the new one. A PO had ruined the threads there by using a sheet metal screw; I thought I had already fixed it (forgetting to check the screws on the old cap... nope. Thankfully I had an M6 tap floating around so I was able to retap it and use the one "correct" screw on the old cap. Gotta love previous PO's...

All in all, I'm happy. I'll do some proper testing this weekend (as part of my travels related to my birthday) to confirm all is back to normal/better.
1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Excellent!  Not only looks better but runs better.  

So the faceplant problem was apparently the coil.  But the reviews say the MSD coil can be a problem.  Do they say if the coil went bad for them or if the coil took the TFI module out?  I'm just wondering about having a spare under the seat, but don't know which thing to have a spare for.

EDIT: Happy Birthday!  Hope you have a fun trip.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

ratdude747
No mentions of TFI failure.

The gist I've gotten is that MSD's QC went down the can when they moved production to China... this coil is old enough that it may be made in USA. Or perhaps old enough to be past the "infant mortality" age. I didn't recall seeing "China" stamped on it anywhere, so it is possible.

I do have my old TFI module... an AZ one that I've had nearly as long as I've had the truck (going on three years later this month).
1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In my experience coils are binary - they work or they don't.  But in your case it appears the spark was arcing inside the coil when the cylinder pressure came up enough to make jumping in the coil easier than jumping across the plug's gap.  In that case you could back off the throttle and keep driving.

But if the MSD fails I'll bet it FAILS.  So it might be wise to have a spare.  However, coils are pretty common so you should be able to get one at any parts store - if you can get to one.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

ratdude747
I'd need to decide on that. Do I go for a stock Motorcraft or another "High voltage" coil from a different brand? I've seen a few other options...
1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Do you have a high performance engine that revs well beyond the factory specs, or a basically stock 300 six?  

Remember that you have a system - the module sinks the current needed to charge the coil. So if you replace the coil with one that has lower impedance then the module has to sink more current. And it gets hotter. Is that enough to cause it to fail?  You won’t know until it fails or the end of time.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

ratdude747
True. Although the heatsink should help a bit. If it blows, I'll go back to a stock rated unit.

----

The jury's out on performance. I could hold 70-75mph on cruise on flats... but overpasses and hills lugged the engine, requiring a forced downshift. Criuse was shoving the gas enough trying to make it go/downshift that I was losing vacuum and my A/C got sent to defrost (must have a leak or a bad check valve ). While I could add more TV cable tension, my fear is that in doing so (based off past experience) it'll refuse to upshift without downshifting and upshifting manually. Not sure if that's just a non-electronic AOD quirk or if there's something sketchy in my valve body... or if my engine just sucks?

Funny enough, on a topoff, I found that I nearly got 18mpg. So I am getting good economy, it's just a bit physically taxing to make it work. Honestly this is an issue it's never fully gotten past. This is on par with the best I've ever had it run...
1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

ratdude747
Oh, and I also shot fresh pics. I posted them to facebook, so I better post them here too!



1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

Gary Lewis
Administrator
What gearing are you running?  The OD ratio on an AOD is quite high, so if you are running 3.0 gears the engine is hardly turning on the highway.

But it looks pretty under the hood.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

ratdude747
This post was updated on .
The stock 3.08. The high altitude version got 3.55's.

There was another thread on this where it seemed the issue is my engine not behaving right by not having enough bottom end. Then again, in OD at 65mph it's only turning 1500 or so... Supposedly I should be doing great there but in reality it struggles.

Edit: about to make a 3 hour drive home in it. Gave the TV cable a few additional notches (1/8"?) of tension.
1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

Gary Lewis
Administrator
1500 RPM is mighty low.  Do you know what your AFR is?  And are you sure you got the cam installed on the marks?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

ratdude747
No idea on the AFR, Cam timing is correct (gear marks lined up when I built the engine).

1500 is too low actually... here's what reality looks like:



When down shifting to 3rd, at 70MPH the RPM is around 2700.
1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, 1500 may be too low.  Not sure where you are driving on the 3 hour trip, but if it is through hills there's going to be some shifting going on.  But that is quite a jump from 1500 to 2700.  

If the AFR is too lean you'll have a lack of power until you push the throttle enough to cause the carb to lift the needle.  But if that is past the point where you downshift then it is moot.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

FuzzFace2
In reply to this post by ratdude747
ratdude747 wrote
No idea on the AFR, Cam timing is correct (gear marks lined up when I built the engine).

1500 is too low actually... here's what reality looks like:



When down shifting to 3rd, at 70MPH the RPM is around 2700.
That is about where mine runs, 1800 rpm, but I have a NP435 manual trans and the Advance Adapter's over drive IIRC 27% and I have a 2.75 rear gear.

I do have a few hills to  / from work and it will slow down a little but a little more throttle and I can stay the speed.
I also have a AFR gauge and on the flat run about 13.5 - 14.5 and get about 15 - 16 mpg.
I want to lean it out a little more to run about 14.5 to 15.5 AFR and hope to bump up the MPG.
But I am one of them "if it aint broke dont fix it"
It just runs so good I hate to mess with it.
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

ratdude747
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
I see. I do have a feedback carb. The last tests I ran I didn't get any lean codes. Or rich codes.

My O2 sensor is used though (upgraded to a heated unit, same upstream sensor as used on late 90's rangers and explorers) so it's possible that's reading rich and driving the mix lean?

One other note: I'm having mixed results driving today... Not as bad if I don't use cruise and allow it to slow down some. Although such doesn't make me any friends behind me though .

Also the slight TV adjustment is causing a bit of gear hang when coming out of a valley in cruise... I have to shove the gas, speed up past the cruise set point, and that allows the gas to drop enough to allow the upshift back to overdrive.
1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Typically the ECU will throw a code if the O2 sensor appears to be flakey.  So it isn't likely that you are running very lean if the light isn't on.

How about ignition timing?  You have the SPOUT connector in?  What's your base set to?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

ratdude747
Base timing at 10 degrees confirmed. Spout is plugged in and working.

I don't have a CEL. But the timing is advancing at idle so it's not in limp mode.
1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

Gary Lewis
Administrator
You knew where I was going.  

So I'm at a loss as to why you are seeing what you are seeing.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

ratdude747
Driving it last night it did better without cruise (and people riding my back bumper).

I guess while the 3.08 is good for economy, it's bad for drivability?
1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: TFI Ignition Rehab

Gary Lewis
Administrator
The Bullnose speed control units are way too aggressive in my book.  And with your combination of driveline more finesse is needed or you'll be shifting all the time.

But yes, 3.08 gears in a truck are quite tall, especially when coupled with an AOD that has a .67:1 OD.  That's like having a 2.06 rear end.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI