Quick Block Plate Question

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Quick Block Plate Question

85pig
Was set on rebuilding a 300 for my 85, but am now leaning hard towards a 351W swap.  I'm completely familiar with the "what transmissions will work with what engine" thing, but want to verify that the 300 block plate is the same as the SBF.  Just want to make sure I don't have any starter orientation issues.
1985 F150 4X4
300 I6 4-Speed
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Re: Quick Block Plate Question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
They are not the same.  Go to Documentation/Driveline/Engine Plates and you'll see the part numbers for both the manual and auto transmission plates and in both cases the 300 takes a different plate than do the Windsors.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Quick Block Plate Question

85pig
This post was updated on .
Sure enough, dang it.  Looks like I'll be hunting a manual SBF plate.  Thanks, Gary - and excellent resource.  I've perused quite a bit from your "Documentation" area, but missed the block plates.  And now I know.

Looks like NPD carries them new - with poor reviews.  
1985 F150 4X4
300 I6 4-Speed
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Re: Quick Block Plate Question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I missed the block plates as well.  Couldn't find them.  So I Googled "garysgaragemahal engine plate" and found them - in Driveline.  Well, that sorta makes sense as they go between the engine and the transmission.  But I was looking in Engine.

So this evening while watching Bedlam football I'll add an entry in the Engine menu to go to that page.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Quick Block Plate Question

Rembrant
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary Lewis wrote
They are not the same.  Go to Documentation/Driveline/Engine Plates and you'll see the part numbers for both the manual and auto transmission plates and in both cases the 300 takes a different plate than do the Windsors.
They may haver different part numbers, but they should all be interchangeable. I've had about a dozen of these block plates over the years from pulling engines apart and buying spare parts, and I have honestly never come across any two plates that were the same...but they were all still interchangeable. Some of them are solid, some have holes stamped in them, some of them have patterns stamped in them, but at the end of the day, the SBF pattern is same across those engines, and the starters are all in the same position when the flywheels are the same (as in all 164 tooth flywheels, not that they're all balanced the same).

The only time the SBF starter changes position is between the 157 tooth flywheels and the 164 tooth flywheels, which I used to understand as a car vs truck application thing, but somebody told me a while back that this reference is not correct and that some cars do indeed have the 164 tooth flywheels.

Every once in a while this issue pops up when somebody swaps a car engine into a truck, and they don't realize that the flywheel is incorrect until they hit the starter and it whirrs away not making contact with the flywheel LOL. That's gotta be a depressing sound.
1952 Mercury M-1 Pickup '96 5.0/4R70W swap project...
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Quick Block Plate Question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Cory - So they'll swap auto/manual and 300/Windsor?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Quick Block Plate Question

Rembrant
Gary Lewis wrote
Cory - So they'll swap auto/manual and 300/Windsor?
Not auto to manual, no, I just mean if all you're doing is swapping SBF pattern engines (300, 302, 351w), and using the same transmission, then the block plates are interchangeable, assuming you also use the correct size flywheel in the swap.

You just need to make sure you buy a truck flywheel (164 tooth), which should be all that is available for the 300, but the 302 and 351 were also in cars, so they can have smaller flywheels.  

1952 Mercury M-1 Pickup '96 5.0/4R70W swap project...
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Quick Block Plate Question

Rembrant
Here's a block/starter plate that will work with both size flywheels:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-700600/make/ford



If you installed it in a Foxbody Mustang with a 5.0, you'd use the 157 tooth starter position. If you installed it in a truck with the larger 164 tooth flywheel, you'd use the outer starter position.
1952 Mercury M-1 Pickup '96 5.0/4R70W swap project...
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Quick Block Plate Question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Thanks!
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI