New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

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New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

imcqueen
Reman’d 460 is here from ATK engines.

Time to tear into this sweet old girl and give her a new heart.

Some quick questions:

1.  What should I swap to the new motor and what should I buy new?

2.  What’s the best way to do this?  Pull core supports and go straight out the front, or try to lift straight up?

3.  C6 trans:  rebuild it myself, or take it to a shop?  I’ve never done trans work before.



1986 F-250, 4x4, 7.5L 460, C6, SCLB.
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

Gary Lewis
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You'll need the timing cover off the old engine - assuming it is in good shape.

As for the intake, are you going with an aftermarket one?  That's something I might buy new.

The old valve covers will work, assuming they aren't beat up, but it is always nice to have new cast aluminum covers that look pretty and seal better.

Concerning removal and installation, the 460 is a beast, so I'd make it as easy as possible and pull the radiator and radiator support.

But I can't speak to the rebuilding of the tranny as I have no idea what your skill level is.  Personally I'd have it rebuilt and beefed up.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

85lebaront2
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In reply to this post by imcqueen
If you have enough manpower available, I would pull the entire doghouse (front clip) as that way you don't need to lift the engine anywhere near as high. Hardest part is the wiring has to be completely disconnected as unlike the trucks before 1980 and post 1986 the front and dash harness is all one assembly. Pulling just the radiator support will help, but it will leave the fenders pretty well unsupported so that if you hit one the wrong way it can buckle easily.

I have done a 460 manual transmission engine over the radiator support, if I had one of the lifting plates that bolts on the intake it would have been a lot easier. My nice Mac tools engine leveler helped, but due to the rear set position on these trucks, it and the firewall became close friends.

On the C6, unless you have access to the tools needed to disassemble and reassemble the clutches, you are better off taking it to a shop.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary Lewis wrote
You'll need the timing cover off the old engine - assuming it is in good shape.
Ditto the water pump backing plate.  

Is your engine going back in as stock as possible?
What are you using for break in oil?
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

imcqueen
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
So far I’ve got a new water pump, new intake, new torque converter (old one was tired from plowing snow), new headers.

Good call on the valve covers.

I’m pretty handy mechanically - but lacking any specialty tools and proper workspace.
I’ll have the trans professionally done.

I’ll pull the radiator and supports.

Thanks!
1986 F-250, 4x4, 7.5L 460, C6, SCLB.
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

imcqueen
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
Yeah going back in stock.

This will be my first big project on the bullnose.

I’ve swapped engines in jeeps before and done lots of big projects on jeeps….

So I’m gonna leave this OEM..  if I discover that it’s fun and easy to work on then maybe I’ll get an itch for more…. But she’s in such good shape I don’t want to mess up a good thing.
1986 F-250, 4x4, 7.5L 460, C6, SCLB.
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

imcqueen
Anyone in the Denver area interested in lending a hand or offering some friendly guidance?
1986 F-250, 4x4, 7.5L 460, C6, SCLB.
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by imcqueen
You might want to assure that the cam timing set that came with your re-man engine is set 'straight up' instead of 4° retarded like it came from the factory.

This makes a huge difference in perceived torque.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

imcqueen
In reply to this post by imcqueen
Engine and trans came out nice and easy.
Left the front clip in place, just pulled the core supports and went out the front.

Been waiting on parts for months.. 🙄

C-6 was rebuilt by a local shop, he said it was in great shape.

Working on assembling the engine now…..  but now I’m wondering - should I leave it stock, or throw a cam in there while I have it sitting on a stand?

Would a 460 come alive with a cam?  Not that I’m expecting a race truck, but a little more power would be nice.
1986 F-250, 4x4, 7.5L 460, C6, SCLB.
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

imcqueen
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
I’ll go check it this afternoon.
If it is retarded, is that something I can easily change?  (I’m not familiar with engine building)

And just like the thought about the cam..  I’d have to pay someone to do it, or take it to my buddies place to get that work done.
1986 F-250, 4x4, 7.5L 460, C6, SCLB.
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

Gary Lewis
Administrator
An aftermarket timing set like a Cloyes should be "straight up" instead of retarded, like a stock replacement would probably be.

As for a cam, you don't want much more lift or timing than stock, but an "RV" cam would probably give a bit more torque.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

imcqueen
Copy.  I’ll just leave the factory internals.

I’m guessing that this factory replacement will likely be 4° retarded.
Is that easy enough to advance?
1986 F-250, 4x4, 7.5L 460, C6, SCLB.
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Easy enough with a timing set that doesn't have a retarded keyway.

You might order a timing chain and sprockets for an '88 & up (EFI) truck.
They all run the crank keyway straight up.

Does your truck need a fuel pump eccentric on the cam?
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

grumpin
In reply to this post by imcqueen
I’ve heard the Cloyes straight up timing set, that Gary mentioned, wakes up the 460 pretty good.

Perhaps Jim will comment, I believe he’s done one.

I agree with Gary, I’ve had two 460’s, and they have some torque. But an RV cam might be nice for some more pulling grunt!

Edit: Jim might comment, as I’m typing!
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

ArdWrknTrk
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Cloyes used to offer a Street true double roller for the 460 that was under $50 to my door.
Ive had that and a Summit RV cam in my truck since 2008.

But with the 460 being discontinued over a quarter century ago, I guess Cloyes don't have a reason to make them any more.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

imcqueen



Does this look like the right one?


Also, do you feel like that RV cam was worth it?

I plan on dropping a slide in camper in the back for ski and bike trips..
1986 F-250, 4x4, 7.5L 460, C6, SCLB.
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
That will work, but I would probably get the regular C-3079  (without the X)
Cloyes don't make the 9-1122 kit I used anymore.


The cam I bought did it's job by killing top end and keeping me from wringing my trucks neck every chance I got.
It has a good base circle and didn't require better springs.  
I can't say how it would perform with a camper at altitude.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

imcqueen
Sounds like I’ll stick with the stock engine, and advance the timing to 0°

Thanks!

Right before I pulled the old engine out of the truck she was hauling a 2500lbs camper up I-70 in the mountains, and happily running 80mph on 7 cylinders and with a broken flex plate.

I’m sure the new engine will do just fine.
1986 F-250, 4x4, 7.5L 460, C6, SCLB.
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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I think that's a good plan.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: New 460 is here. Engine swap is about to commence.

imcqueen
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
I haven’t thought about break-in oil yet..  I’m assuming this will need something with a zinc additive..

Going back in stock, but with straight up timing, instead of 4* retarded.
1986 F-250, 4x4, 7.5L 460, C6, SCLB.
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