M5odr2

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M5odr2

Socnarftrucks
Would a 92-96 M5ODR2 bolt right on into my 81 F100 4.9l? TÍA.
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Re: M5odr2

mat in tn
yes and no. if you get all of it then it can be done, but it may not be quite as bolt on as you think. more questions need to be answered first
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Re: M5odr2

Socnarftrucks
Brother I need all the help I can’t get.
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Re: M5odr2

mat in tn
start with what you have now. engine?. trans?, shifter type? wheelbase?
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Re: M5odr2

Socnarftrucks
Thanks. It’s a 4.9l 300 short wheel base Flareside. It has a T-18 Borg-Warner with the floor shifter(?). The first gear is massive.
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Re: M5odr2

Rembrant
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Socnarftrucks
Socnarftrucks wrote
Would a 92-96 M5ODR2 bolt right on into my 81 F100 4.9l? TÍA.
Yes it will. I've done two M5OD-R2 swaps.

The '92-'96 M5OD will work, but the downside is that you will not be able to connect your speedometer cable. If you want to keep using your factory speedo, you'll want an M5OD from 1988-1991. In 1992 Ford deleted the cable driven speedo and started reading from a sensor in the rear diff. This only applies to 2wd...which I assume you have if it's a factory F100.

It's a pretty easy swap in an '84-'86 manual trans Bullnose that already had a hydraulic clutch. In a 1981, you'll need some extra stuff:

1984-1986 Manual trans hydraulic clutch pedal set.
1984-1986 Hydraulic master cylinder.
1988-1991 Hydraulic line (Master to slave cylinder)
You'll have to drill a hole(s) in the firewall to mount the master cylinder.
You'll want to install a firewall brace at this time (recommended)
You'll have to plug the hole in the floor/firewall where the mechanical clutch linkage runs now.

If available, you'll want the M5OD factory crossmember.
You'll probably have to have a driveshaft made or have your existing one modified.
(Depending on the transmission length, maybe not...I didn't have to).

If pulling the M5OD from a junked truck, grab the plug/pigtail from the reverse switch if it's available.
It'll save you from having to buy a new one.

Grab the 5spd tunnel cover from that donor truck if it's available.
1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: M5odr2

Socnarftrucks
Brother you’re a lifesaver!! I’ll start grabbing the pieces and go for it.  If that’s ok, I’d like to pick your brain a bit more when I run into a problem.  We can do it on this forum or maybe we can exchange emails/phone
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Re: M5odr2

Gary Lewis
Administrator
If you do it on here then everyone can learn.  And we can find the discussion w/a Google search.  Not so if you do it "offline".  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: M5odr2

mat in tn
that what im talkin about. i knew most of it but was not going guess on the things i was unsure about. very interested also.
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Re: M5odr2

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In reply to this post by Socnarftrucks
Socnarftrucks wrote
Brother you’re a lifesaver!! I’ll start grabbing the pieces and go for it.  If that’s ok, I’d like to pick your brain a bit more when I run into a problem.  We can do it on this forum or maybe we can exchange emails/phone
Happy to help on here. It's not that I mind helping offline, but like Gary said at least if it's on here it's captured information;).

I swapped a 1991 M5OD-R2 into my 1984 F150 Flareside with 302. It turned out to be a very easy swap in this truck. Truck was a factory manual trans, so it already had hydraulic clutch. The M5OD was only 3/8" longer than the 3 spd I removed, so I was able to re-use my existing driveshaft and slip yoke...it just popped right in there.

I even welded an NP435 4spd stick on to the 5spd stub shaft so that my truck looked like it had a period correct transmission in it.



Here was the 5spd all painted up and re-sealed before I installed it. Used a rattle can of Cast Aluminum engine paint. Love that stuff!



The M5OD shifter seal and bushings are notorious for falling apart (well, they are 30+ years old now).



I bought all the seals and kits I think from All State Gear:

https://www.allstategear.com/M5R2-RKE-5-Speed-Transmission-Parts-s/1976.htm

Good idea to do the front and rear main seals if you are able to, and I recommend these two kits below:



I'm a big fan of swapping a 5spd into a Bullnose. I think it is one of the best mods you can do (if not THEE best mod). I'm just a fan of having OD in general, so however one gets there, it's worth it in my mind. I'm currently building a '52 pickup, and I'm installing an auto trans with OD (an AODE/W, or 4R70W).

When I swapped the M5OD into my 1980 F150 4x4 with 300/6, I had to do the firewall holes and all that. You can buy the firewall brace from JBG. I believe that is the only place you can buy one now. There was another company making them called Terrapin, but they stopped selling them a couple years ago.

https://shop.broncograveyard.com/83-91-Ford-Bronco-Ford-Truck-Firewall-Clutch-Repair-Bracket/productinfo/34010/

If you install a firewall brace (and it IS a good idea), it also acts as a template so you'll know exactly where to drill the three holes in the firewall. I installed a Terrapin brace on my 1984 F150, but when I did the 1980, I made my own brace with 16ga steel, which was smaller, but still functional.



And here it was installed in the 1980 cab.


1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: M5odr2

Rembrant
This post was updated on .
Regarding the hydraulic parts...you have to be a bit careful what you use, as the parts changed a few times over the generations. The 1984-1986 master cylinders are the same as the 1987-1991 master cylinders, except for the bolt pattern:




If you have to drill holes in the firewall anyway, it doesn't really matter which master cylinder you use, but I tried to stick with a Bullnose master, and the for the hydraulic line and concentric slave cylinder, I ordered all new parts for a 1991, for both trucks. The master cylinders changed again in 1992, and you can use one of them also, but if you do then you'll need a 1992-up hydraulic line and slave cylinder.

If you're pulling the hydraulic parts from a donor truck, pull the whole works. If you're buying new parts, then go with a 1984-1986 clutch master, and then order a line and slave cylinder for 1988-1991.



1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: M5odr2

Socnarftrucks
Thank you so much!! I am inspired and motivated. I already located a few transmissions nearby and will be taking a  couple of days off to go and grab what I can. As far as the rest, I’ll order from those suppliers.

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Re: M5odr2

Socnarftrucks
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Yes, sir!! My apologies for sounding selfish.

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Re: M5odr2

Rembrant
In reply to this post by Socnarftrucks
When drilling the hole for the clutch master cylinder, it has to be in just the right place as it ends up almost touching the brake booster on one side, and almost touching the seam in the firewall on the other. I was lucky when I drilled the firewall in my '80 F150 as I still had the '84 to look at for reference. You can make a template easy enough with a gasket. Not trying to spook you or anything, just making some notes here to go by. If you're technical enough to handle a 5spd swap, you'll be just fine with the firewall mods to make the master cylinder work.

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: M5odr2

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Cory - You are doing a wonderful job with this.  Would you consider creating a how-to?  We could put your writeup and pics in the Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum › Resources & How-To's › How-To's section.

Also, while he's installing the clutch master wouldn't that be a good time to add a firewall brace?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: M5odr2

Rembrant
Gary Lewis wrote
Cory - You are doing a wonderful job with this.  Would you consider creating a how-to?  We could put your writeup and pics in the Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum › Resources & How-To's › How-To's section.

Also, while he's installing the clutch master wouldn't that be a good time to add a firewall brace?
Good morning Gary! How's the Sunday coffee?? I'm already working on my second X-large!

I can create a write up, sure. I can't take any new pictures as the trucks are gone and I only have what I saved previously. And yes, best time to install a Firewall brace. The reason I posted this morning was that I was thinking about the process of doing this on a truck that did not previously have a hydraulic clutch, and that you need to be somewhat careful as to where the holes go for the master cylinder. I was lucky at the time because I had both Bulls, but most people will not have a second truck to use as a reference.

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: M5odr2

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Morning!  I'm on the 2nd cup as well.  Starbucks Verona.  Dark, but smooooth.

Please do a how-to.  Nothing urgent, but you are in an excellent position to do it.

As for the brace, in case others have a question, our page at Documentation/Driveline/Clutches & Linkage says:

The hydraulic linkage seems to be pretty robust, save for the problem of the firewalls cracking - keep reading.  But the mechanical linkage seems to always be badly worn by this time.  And I can only think of two approaches to resolve that problem - repair the linkage or replace it with the hydraulic linkage used in the 1983 and later trucks.  And while the latter would seem to be the cleanest solution, it isn't without its problems, the major one of which is the firewall as it wasn't designed for the forces it sees with a hydraulic linkage.  With a mechanical linkage the firewall sees up/down forces when you depress the clutch pedal as the linkage runs almost straight down from the clutch pedal's arm to the Z-bar - as shown below.  And, in that plane the firewall is quite stiff.  However, the forces seen by the firewall when using a hydraulic linkage are in/out, and in that plane the firewall isn't as strong.  In fact, Ford put out a TSB on this for all 1984 and later trucks as several of the firewalls cracked and the clutches wouldn't release all the way.  The fix was to install a brace that stiffens the firewall significantly, and Ford had two different braces, as shown on the Hydraulic/Parts List tab: E3TZ 7K509-A for minimal flex; and E3TZ 7K509-B for "severely damaged" firewalls.

A brace of some kind really should be added if one is converting from a mechanical linkage to hydraulic.  Unfortunately the Ford braces are no longer readily available.  Even worse, Terrapin Manufacturing made a brace, but they've gone out of business.  There are a few of the Ford braces and a few of the Terrapin ones floating around, but very few.  However, Bronco Graveyard has one that looks good for $79.

That may be out of date as there has been some discussion about it in several places.  But I know that if I was to add a hydraulic linkage to a Bullnose I'd add at least the small brace to ensure I didn't have problems down the road.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: M5odr2

Socnarftrucks
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
I will also be documenting the journey with plenty of photographs and lessons learned. I can pass those along if you’d like.
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Re: M5odr2

rcarlisle
I have this trans in my truck, 81, 302.   I have NO idea if it was done correctly or not. It works well.   I can agree that if you can get the higher hump, it might be better.   Mine doesn't have that and the floor is almost right on the trans.  

At 60, it runs about 2000 - 2100 rpm.  I figure that is pretty good from other cars I've driven but the mpg is still around 10.   Still going through things looking to see what might need adjusting.   They installers? or someone painted the whole thing dark blue.  INcluding the ID tag.   No tag on my rear.  From a couple charts, I'm guessing I may have a 3.55 (i think it was) rear gear.  

Somewhere I have a listing for the shift boot part I had to use to be "right".  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VMHG4LN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1   And it still doesn't sit flat on the floor.  But I do have it sealed from air coming up through the hole.



 
Randy

Mt. Airy, NC   81 F-150 STYLESIDE regular cab 2wd.   302 Auto Zone crate.  5 spd M5od-R2  
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Re: M5odr2

mat in tn
 2000 rpm at 60 is about what I would expect in fourth gear. I bet the truck runs and drives great and goes through the gears good also. I am using a different goal on builds as I'm wanting to keep mpg at least a consideration.  I like 2000 rpm to be giving 70 mph at least 75 would be about right imo.
I don't remember the od ratio of the m5 but I have the aod/w (modified with .70 od) in dolly with the roller 5.0 and 3.73 rear gear and I cruise at 2000 rpm at 72 mph on stock size tires
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