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It won't stop...I'm helpless!

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ReneH

It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Hi,

I don't know what to say...New cam installed, everything done as it should be. This time with additional care, cause of the last defective cam. Now it sounds after cam break in, that even more than one lifter is defective...and also the new cam will it be again.

Hear at this:
Youtube

René's Profile

Bronco 1986 Ford Bronco XLT 302/347 stroker with 351W EEC-IV and 351W factory cam C6 gearbox. Jeep 1986 Jeep CJ7 256 I6 with T5 gearbox. Buggy 1972 HAZ Buggy 122 Ford Cologne V6
Baron 1994 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 183 V6 4-speed automatic

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Or maybe the exhaust mainfolds this time?
Does it sound different this time?
I'm not sure...

Gary Lewis

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

Oh no! You did run it at 2000 RPM for 20 to 30 minutes to break the cam in?

But that noise might be exhaust. It is sometimes very difficult to tell the difference. So I'd put a small hose to my ear and place the other end close to the exhausts and see if you can tell where the noise is coming from.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Hi Gary,

yes, I did...this time with more than the normal caress and checking every detail two times while mounting.

Also used the comp cams break-in additive this time and not the break-in oil like last time...

I unmount the exhaust mainfold on the driver's side...it's possible that one port blows off...

I hope this is the problem...otherwise I don't know how I can solve this, if it is a material problem at comp cams...

Gary Lewis

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

In reply to this post by ReneH

Rene' there is a major problem with lifters, both flat tappet (yours) and roller lifters. The problem seems to be a metallurgy issue where the lifter base or roller essentially disintegrates. My feeling on is it is caused by outsourcing to China.

I did find that the OEM lifters are all coming from one source, so the problem is showing up on all manufacturers, Ford, GM, and Stellantis here.

Go on YouTube and search for lifter failure or cam failure and you will see a load of them. One shop has a number of older stock, new lifters that they are using rather than the ones that come with new cams.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Hi Bill,

I know. You already have send a YouTube video and I was scared to see...

I hope it's "only" the exhaust mainfold...u have unmounted the driver's side...

As it seems, my mainfolds are not very good. I have to wide the mounting holes, that the mainfold fits to the block.
So there is only a small space on which the gasket is able to seal...

As you see, the ports in the mainfold are much bigger than the ones in the heads....
The gasket on one of the photos shows the size of the ports inside the heads.

So, I really, really hope that this is the source of the noise...

85lebaront2

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

I was looking at the very small sealing area on those headers, not a good design. It looks like several of the bolt holes are actually into the port area. One item, on those gaskets, the composition side goes toward the head and the metal side toward the header.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Ok, thanks Bill for the information about the gaskets.

I plan to let weld a seam inside the outlet of the header to get a bigger surface for it.

But what do you think about the sound you've heard in the video? Are you with Gary and me that this could be the source?

Maybe I should change the headers...I'm not sure. I want to finish this job on the one hand, on the other side, I don't want to start again in some months onbthe passenger side mainfold...

85lebaront2

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

I would see about a different brand, possibly someone on here has experience with some that fit and seal well (I personally don't want headers on Darth, past experience on two cars and fighting leaks).

I had Hedman Headers on my 1964 Falcon, and when the original ones on my 1966 Shelby turned to Swiss cheese I put a set of their large tube ones on. Be careful in ordering, some companies list the same headers for 289/302 and 351W, the 351W exhaust ports are a bit larger, which means the headers have less metal around the ports to clamp the gasket.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Ok...thanks. I think then it's better to rework and optimize mine...it sounds, that this is a general problem with stainless steel headers...

So it also seems that mine are maybe made for 351W, cause thenports are bigger than the ones in my heads...

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Maybe it's the best idea to build an adapter plate, fixed with sunk screws and mount the headers on this plate to compensate the differences...

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

What threat size does the mainfold screws have? I want to search for types with a small head and inner drive like torx or something...

85lebaront2

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

Rene', 3/8" 16 threads to the inch. Many headers used a 12 point head with a washer face. Here are a bunch of different styles: https://www.google.com/search?q=3%2F8+header+bolts&oq=&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgAEEUYOxjCAzIJCAAQRRg7GMIDMgkIARBFGDsYwgMyCQgCEEUYOxjCAzIJCAMQRRg7GMIDMgkIBBBFGDsYwgMyCQgFEEUYOxjCAzIJCAYQRRg7GMIDMgkIBxBFGDsYwgPSAQ8xOTM5MTA3MTQxajBqMTWoAgiwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#oshopproduct=pid:15582600736614592848,oid:15582600736614592848,iid:13440133994599715655,pvt:hg&oshop=apv&pvs=0

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Ok, thanks Bill!

What do you think about that?
Summit 1

The washers seems perfect for the small space between the outlets and the screw heads...

These seem to short in my understanding. Currently I have 1" length screws.
Summit 2

But again, only an assessment...is it more possible, that the noise comes from the exhaust header(s) or from the cam/lifters?

What would you assume?

85lebaront2

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

Rene' 1" might be long enough to bottom in the holes. From your video it is very hard to say which is the source of the noise. One thing to look for, an exhaust leak will give a carbon trail at the leak where a valve train noise will not.

One other item, make sure all the spark plugs are seated properly, a loose plug will also "tick", and I know the right (passenger) side is a pain on those engines (son had a 1986 F150).

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

I can't tell from the photos how thick the flange is on those headers.
I'm always very careful to check that my bolts don't bottom in the head and punch through. (saw that once, no way to repair the head

)

I've found that using a length of hose as a stethoscope works well to find the source of an exhaust tick.
(Currently #8 on my truck. But I'm remiss to pull the manifold because I'm afraid of busting off a corroded stud in the head)

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Yes, I have to measure it. But I also need washers, cause the holes in the headers are too big, so I get some additional space.

85lebaront2

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

I have one on #5 on Darth, but once everything is hot it stops. I have a pretty good inspector here, he will try to get me in while everything is hot.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

OK, maybe I have had asked this before...but is there any way to check the lifters without unmounting the top of the engine?

As I'm waiting for the new bolts and the new gaskets from Summit, I'm a bit impatient...

...

As it's not sure, that the sound comes from the exhaust, I'm thinking about to pull the cable from the distributor and crank the engine. But I'm not sure, if the rpm is too low to hear if a lifter stucks....

I should put a electric motor at the main bolt of the crankshaft and rotate the engine without ignition and fuel...

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