Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

taskswap
That relay should do fine although I'm not personally a fan of small screw terminals in automotive use. I know you've done battery cable work - do you have a small-gauge ferrule crimper? That would add some peace of mind to the connection...

I presume you know this but for the archives, here's the data sheet on that relay. This particular part is "sealed" which not all relays are, so that's good.

https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf-file/720556/Songle/SRD-05VDC-SL-C/1

One thing I do see is max input voltage is 110% of the rated value, so 5.5V. It's just a coil, it's not going to burn up if you give it a half volt more (at least not right away, lol). I'm sure that's not a problem for you, Gary, because this 5V setup is going to have a regulator. But if anybody is reading this and thinking of using this particular unit in the 12V part number for some other purpose, don't. A lot of "12V" relays aren't designed for automotive use and will fail pretty fast with dirty 14V+ from alternators.

Gary, that Pormido has some kind of power supply I'm sure. What's it rated for? I'm sure it's fine, this is just curiosity, but this relay does draw half a watt when energized...
--
1981 F-250 Custom. 6.6L V8, 4 barrel Holley carb, ARA aftermarket A/C.
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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I do have a small crimper and can easily put ferrules on the leads.  But I like solder connections better than screw terminals.

As for the power supply for the Pormido mirror & cameras, it is named Hardwire Kit for PR996,PR998,D50 and the output is rated at 5V & 3.0A.  It is a pretty fancy unit as it has cut-off voltages of 11.3V, 11.8V or 12.1V.  In other words, when your battery voltage gets to the preset it'll turn the mirror off.  That's for when you set the mirror up for constant recording while parked, during which it'll be pulling ~650 ma.  However, with the relay module pulling another 100 ma (90 for the relay and another 10 for the opto coupler?), I won't be leaving it in that mode very often.

Anyway, at 3 amps for the power supply we should be good.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Did some more testing today by cutting the red and black wires in the cable to the rear camera.  Here are some notes:

If you disconnect the black wire while the system is powered up you have to power it down to get the rear camera's output back on the screen.  But if you disconnect the red wire while the system is powered up the view comes back on as soon as you reconnect the red wire.

The red wire is carrying 258 ma from the mirror to the camera, but the black wire is carrying 156 ma from the camera to the mirror.  IOW, it is a ground.

If you connect the black wire directly to ground the system boots up perfectly.  But the black wire is then carrying 189 ma.  However, with that connection the red wire is only carrying 232 ma.  IOW, the black wire is up 33 ma and the red wire is down 26 ma.  

And now for the bad news.  I realized that while I'd tried grounding the black wire from the rear camera instead of connecting it to the mirror's black wire I hadn't tried taking the red wire from the rear camera to power.  So I did - to 12v instead of 5v.  And I blew the rear camera up.  Dead.  The smell, if not the smoke, came out.  

But the mirror and the front camera still work.  So hopefully the input to the mirror from the rear camera is good as well.

Anyway, I'm wondering if I should use a DP relay and switch both the ground and the power to the camera.  I checked and with the system and camera off but always-hot power supplied to the mirror there's a few ma of current for several seconds, like a capacitor bleeding off, but it soon goes to zero.

Thoughts?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

taskswap
They make relays that can establish one circuit before another (like a GND before power) but I don't think that's what you want. I may be misunderstanding but is there a reason you want to switch GND? That's usually left always connected so there's a reference for things like caps to drain out to, provide an EMF and static-discharge pathway, etc...

I suspect you're right that the video line is probably OK. Usually what fries is the front-end circuitry that buffers the power to the CCD (or the video would be noisy). To make those cameras so small they can't stuff big 60V rated electrolytics in there, so they're usually all surface mount caps and diodes. A lot of them these days are in 0403 and smaller packages and there just aren't enough molecules side by side to stand up to higher voltages. When a diode hits its breakdown voltage (which is low on small diodes) it basically becomes a short, and both it and any tiny resistors on the path just melt. Foosh.

It's a shame they didn't have a better clamp on that line, like a zener setup, but there's a reason these things are so cheap.  But even that would only have given you a second or two to react before the same thing happened.

Anyway sorry your camera melted but maybe now you have the accidental excuse to look for the perfect shape/size to mount where you want it?
--
1981 F-250 Custom. 6.6L V8, 4 barrel Holley carb, ARA aftermarket A/C.
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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I don't know that I need to switch ground.  I measured the black wire back towards the mirror with power off and got 8 ohms.  And measured it towards the camera, before blowing it up, and got 2 ohms.  So I think I'll be fine taking the black wire from the camera to ground permanently.

But I'd actually suggested switch both power and ground to Pormido and it was that arrangement the engineer approved.  So I've been wondering, aloud mostly.  But, as said, it worked taken to ground, although it altered the currents.  I'm guessing that the "drain" wire was being used as ground and by creating a better ground that current came over to the black wire.

And yes, it is a shame they didn't have a better clamp.  But it is my fault.  

However, I'm going back with the same camera.  It will work and they are "only" $50 each.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

taskswap
This all reminds me of the A-R-A add-on A/C system. The "digital thermostat" (ha!) module has this VERY explicit instruction that the unit must be grounded before being supplied power. I would never have known about it except for the thread here on that unit, where another member shared that wiring diagram that mentions it.

It's crazy to me because I have some (small but non-zero) amount of experience with general aviation, and there, literally everything is rated to minimum 40-60V to tolerate "load dumps" from the alternator without getting fried. But everything in our cars is so delicate! You can't "pull over" in a plane...
--
1981 F-250 Custom. 6.6L V8, 4 barrel Holley carb, ARA aftermarket A/C.
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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, it is scary that these systems are so delicate. But it is easy to see why they are proprietary in their connections. They don’t want you to be mucking about with them - for good reason.

Anyway, I got the relays and project boxes on order tonight. Hopefully I’ll order the cameras tomorrow.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

Gary Lewis
Administrator
And as I've come to expect, Melissa came through and confirmed the part number of the cameras.  And, said there were only two in stock at Amazon.  They'll be here Thursday or Friday.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Houston, we have a problem.  I just got this in:

Hi Gary,
Update comment from our engineer:
1) You cannot connect backup cameras to the system, otherwise, the front image will be 'GRAY' because currently the Front cam system is AHD, and the Back cam system TVI.
2) We recommend you place the current front camera to rear windshield(inside of the car), use it as rear camera, and use the backup camera as FRONT camera(waterproof), if the front camera cable is too short, we have 2 METERS extension cable, you can use THREE cables(6 meters).

Sorry for this delay message, actually we've been waiting for this engineer's confirmation but he's not in office(covid)...

So, after all this it is NOT going to work.  

My response was that I cannot place either camera inside the cab.  So it looks like I have but two options: package it all up and return it to Amazon, or put the front camera in a plastic box and put it on the nose of the truck like a wart.

I'm not a happy camper, so I'm going to bed to stew on it for the night.  And since the grandtwins come tomorrow it may be a bit before I decide.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

taskswap
Hmm that is a wrinkle.

Back on the encapsulation idea, what's the exact size of this front camera? Is it time to re-explore various options for protecting it while making it unobtrusive?
--
1981 F-250 Custom. 6.6L V8, 4 barrel Holley carb, ARA aftermarket A/C.
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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I'll get the exact size after while as I need it to pick a box.  I'd like to get that on order before the grandtwins get here today 'cause after that I want to enjoy them.

And yes, it is time to explore making it less obtrusive than a wart.  But Melissa told me today that they will come out with a waterproof front camera for my unit, the PR998, but cannot give me a time.  So I think I'm ok with "less obtrusive" than "hidden".

Perhaps on the bumper between the fog lights would be the best place.  Or just above the fairlead with the box attached with double-sticky tape?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Looking back, I said in this post:

As for the front camera, it looks to me like I need a box with at least these inside dimensions: 3" wide; 2" top/bottom; 1 1/2" front/rear.  That would give me enough extra room to install a waterproof grommet and wrap the wire around the end of the camera and plug it in.  And I'll have to slip the cable through that grommet before splicing the wire to the end with the connector.

But I want to think that over just a bit more.  The issue is that the portion of the body that has the lens rotates 360 degrees with reference to the "foot" that has the red double-stick tape on it.  But I'm now thinking that attaching the camera to the back wall of the box when in the cover-forward position would allow pulling the cover and tweaking the camera's angle to get it "just right".

Anyway, more measurements in a bit.




Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Ok, here are actual measurements.  And the "with plug" length is critical.

But we need to think a bit about where to attach the camera.  Here are three options with thoughts & dimensions:

Cover: If it is stuck to the cover then the inside depth of the box can be as little as 34.62 mm/1.363".  And while adhering it to the cover would make getting to the camera easy, it wouldn't make accurately adjusting the camera for up/down alignment easy.  Nor would it make replacing the cover easy.

Back: Attaching the camera to the back wall (actually the bottom of the box) would require the box to be at least 37.46 mm/1.475" deep.  But that would put the lens against the cover and preclude turning the lens up or down.  So the box needs to be a bit deeper than that as I'm sure it'll need to be rotated down.

Top or Bottom: Attaching the camera to the top or bottom of the box, and the bottom is probably best, would require the box to have 32mm/1.26" of depth.  That measurement would allow the camera to be rotated down to at least 25 degrees, which should be enough.

I like the idea of attaching the camera to the bottom of the box.  And that would mean the inside dimensions of the box need to be at least 72mm/2.83" long, 28mm/1.10" wide, and 32mm/1.26" deep.


Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

Gary Lewis
Administrator
To bring this thread/project up to date before I go quiet over Christmas and the next few days, I got one of the two rear cameras I ordered in today and tested the mirror - all is well.

That is a huge relief as the mirror doesn't really work quite right if the rear camera is missing.  On boot-up it complains about the camera not being there, and when you go into settings some things don't work quite right after you change the setting.  Reboot the mirror and it'll work - until you change something else.  But with the rear camera it all works correctly.

Also, I've been searching for just "the right" case to put the camera in.  And I'm here to tell you there isn't one.  

I found two that were close:

Awclub Waterproof Dustproof ABS Plastic Junction Box Universal Electric Project Enclosure with PC Clear Transparent Cover 3.9"x2.7"x2".  This one has inside dimensions of 3.7" x 2.36" x 1.73" and is IP66 rated.  The size is a bit bigger than I wanted but it'll work.  However, several of the reviews I read said the cover has an orange peel finish to it and makes the pictures fuzzy.

Polycase AN-19F Diecast Aluminum NEMA Enclosure: This one doesn't have a clear cover at all but I could mill out the cover and glue a clear window in the cover, maybe even of glass.  The dimensions are roughly the same.

In the end I ordered the Awclub plastic one and it'll be here Tuesday.  So maybe later in the week I can check it out as the twins have to go home on Wednesday.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

BigBrother-84
Gary Lewis wrote
[...] and tested the mirror - all is well.
Happy to hear that, nothing's broken.

Still following this journey!

Have a Merry Christmas with family, Gary!
Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.
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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Thanks and Merry Christmas, Jeff!
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Got the box in today, and I'm not too pleased with the optical properties of the cover.  And I'm not surprised as the reviews pointed out exactly what I found - distortion.

So I'm thinking I can cut out a window of the plastic and then glue in a piece of something that is optically clear.  Maybe Lexan or even shatterproof glass.  Anyone have an idea of what to use?





And I stuck the box on the front of the truck to see what it would look like.  A wart, really.  The box is too large, but it is the smallest I could find that would work.

Anyway, which do y'all dislike the least?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

salans7
Mounted right above the fairlead looks better to me than between the lights.
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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Thanks, Shaun.  And I agree.  Plus, it is less likely to be hit while messing with the winch and its cover.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Installation Of A Pormido 998 Mirror/Camera System

grumpin
Funny, I like it between the lights because it doesn’t cover the Warn tag.

Man that thing is distorted!

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona
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