Engine locks up after cranking

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Engine locks up after cranking

TheWeldingFords
Hi guys,

I've been fixing tons of things and diagnosing why the truck didn't want to drive over 2k rpm in any gear and why it would stall out when it comes to a stop.
After messing with timing it and fixing vacuum leaks now it doesn't want to start up.

It'll attempt to fire off once in the beginning and then dies out within a second and then its like compression builds up so much the dying battery and the starter can't overcome the load, I've tried a jumper pack and it made no difference in getting it to crank better and overcome the pressure.

I also pulled the codes 32, 67, 95
I'm in pretty dire need to get this thing running reliably in less than a month.

It has all new fuel system and pretty much all new ignition system, the only thing that I have done differently from when it ran a few days ago was fixing the vacuum leaks and removing a sheet metal plate the previous owner put between the egr and the intake, when I was timing it I was getting detonation and read into the egr and what it does to help so I removed the plate hoping it would help.
Alex

Daisy: 1986 F250 XLT 5.0L EFI 4x4 Manual

Roseanne: 1993 Ford Ranger 2.3L 4cyl Rwd Manual
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

ArdWrknTrk
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EGR shouldn't have any effect at idle, unless the valve is stuck and leaking.

Where did you set your timing with the SPOUT removed?

Have you considered that your exhaust is plugged?
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

85lebaront2
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My thoughts exactly Jim, we're dealing with a 37 year old system, which if I remember had two cats, front was reducing, rear was oxidizing and had an air feed either in front of or into it. Air pump and associated system issues would be a dead giveaway.

Matt's 86 F150 needed a good exhaust enema for that reason.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

Gary Lewis
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If I remember correctly the Fords of the era used a honeycomb cat where GM used round pellets.  The honeycomb was easily plugged, especially if someone cut off the air injection system to it that allowed it to get up to temp.

However, in my experience the engines would start but wouldn't pull a load - which fits with not wanting to run over 2000 RPM.  But if the issue is starting then I'm wondering about the EGR valve.  If it is open from carbon or whatever it could cause the engine to be very lean and not want to start.  Maybe that is why the valve was blocked off?  If that was the last thing that was done then maybe it should be put back for a test?  Maybe there are two problems?  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

ArdWrknTrk
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Gary, EGR would make it 'rich' (provide less oxygen) but if too much exhaust entered -when exhaust pressure increased- it could be enough to make it so the charge couldn't burn.

Perhaps there are two problems...
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

Gary Lewis
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Well, "rich" or "lean" may be confusing in this case.  At least it confuses me.  But with a plugged cat and an open EGR valve there wouldn't be much air ingested via the carb so very little fuel.  And with already-burned gasses coming back in there'd be little oxygen.  Bottom Line: It won't run well, if at all.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
If the 'ideal' stoichiometric ratio is 14.7:1
And ~21% of the atmosphere is oxygen, when you dilute the air with incombustible gases you essentially make the mixture richer because there's less oxygen (by volume) to react with the fuel.

Remember, the point of EGR is to stave off lean 'knock' or detonation, and allow more timing advance.

And, of course the first thing to do is undo the last thing you touched...

But the next thing I would do is loosen the headpipes and see how that effects the trucks ability to accelerate.

 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

81-F150-Explorer
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
I had a Catalytic converter plug on my 1981 300/6.  Acceleration and pulling power was cut in half.

The pressure was enough to push gasses past the spark plug insulators, and melt and warp the exhaust manifold, and almost destroy the intake manifold as well. The pressure wanted to go somewhere so it choose the least resistance.

Two new cats, a ring and valve job, a new exhaust manifold, and new spark plugs fixed it.  

When the catalytic converter plugs it can cause a lot of damage.

If the EGR was a Backpressure transducer type, it would open more with more pressure it got. So a clogged cat, can effect the EGR negatively.
Truck: 1981 F-150 Explorer / Engine: 300-6 California MCU Feedback System / Trans: T-18 - 4 speed / 2.75 Ford Rear Axle Open Diff.
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

ArdWrknTrk
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As I recall Ron/Reamer had a plugged Cat but didn't believe me.
He rebuilt his engine and still had the same problem...

Then he disconnected his exhaust, and was doing burnouts.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

TheWeldingFords
I forgot to mention this but I have not cats because of the previous owner and I put in a new exhaust a few weeks ago (basically headers back into a dynomax turbo muffler that then dumps out the passenger side before the rear tire) I don't think it would be clogged up with less than a mile of driving it and maybe 30 minutes of idling in total.

I have reversed what I have done and it still didn't fix it.
Alex

Daisy: 1986 F250 XLT 5.0L EFI 4x4 Manual

Roseanne: 1993 Ford Ranger 2.3L 4cyl Rwd Manual
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

TheWeldingFords
I tested fuel pressure to make sure and it took a while messing around with my gauge but I finally got
the gauge to work and it only ended up reading 10 psi, which I know is too low for efi which needs somewhere around 45 psi.

I can hear the high and low pressure pumps kicking on and and those are all new,
the only thing that isn't new for the fuel system is the FPR, the rail, injectors, and the tank.
Could a faulty FPR be causing only 10 psi?
Maybe even the stalling out after driving and not being able to go over 2k rpm when driving (it revs past that fine when it ran)?
Alex

Daisy: 1986 F250 XLT 5.0L EFI 4x4 Manual

Roseanne: 1993 Ford Ranger 2.3L 4cyl Rwd Manual
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

ArdWrknTrk
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Disconnect the vacuum line from the FPR and look and smell for fuel.

The FPR may have failed without a leaking diaphragm, but that I the most common failure
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

TheWeldingFords
After replacing the IACV and the FPR it now idles and I'm currently working on timing it
Alex

Daisy: 1986 F250 XLT 5.0L EFI 4x4 Manual

Roseanne: 1993 Ford Ranger 2.3L 4cyl Rwd Manual
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by TheWeldingFords
TheWeldingFords wrote
 a few days ago, when I was timing it I was getting detonation and read into the egr and what it does to help so I removed the plate hoping it would help.
Where did you have the timing set, Alex?

It's really hard to have detonation without the engine being under load.
Are you sure the spark wasn't so far out it was firing with the valves open?
Check that TDC compression #1 matches the timing mark on the damper.
Pull the SPOUT and start at 10° with the engine at operating temperature and the rpms where the sticker says (probably 700 in neutral)
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

TheWeldingFords
After letting it warm up (kinda had to guess I don't think that gauge works) with
the SPOUT removed I set the timing to 10 degrees BTDC at 700 rpm and then I shut it off
and plugged it back in let it idle for a bit so the computer could relearn.
While it was running check for codes and got 11(all good) but I also got the codes 10 and 20. (kinda weird, I was using my code reader so I don't know how it got zeros.)

Engine idled nicely but now with acceleration it has small pops and still wont drive over 2k rpm(feels like lack of power)
Alex

Daisy: 1986 F250 XLT 5.0L EFI 4x4 Manual

Roseanne: 1993 Ford Ranger 2.3L 4cyl Rwd Manual
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

ArdWrknTrk
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Unfortunately I think it's time to open the computer and check for leaky or blown capacitors.

There's only three and if you have a soldering iron (or know someone who does) you can buy a 'kit' for about $12 (for $2.50 worth of parts)

I can point you to a recent YouTube video on the Watch Wes Work channel if you see any damage.
He was working on a 460 camper but the computers all look the same inside.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

TheWeldingFords
Okay, I will open it up tomorrow and see what I find.

The video and parts would be helpful if you can find that.

I've got a soldering gun and plenty of solder so it shouldn't be an issue.

Do you know what I would need to do to test my temp gauge function and where I can find the sensor for it?
This truck's wiring is a mess from the previous owner and it's got lots of janky repairs.
Alex

Daisy: 1986 F250 XLT 5.0L EFI 4x4 Manual

Roseanne: 1993 Ford Ranger 2.3L 4cyl Rwd Manual
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
https://youtu.be/6hh7zv21XlI

About 17:00 in if you don't care for the diagnostics, but I think you could gain something from that part too.
If it had Wes scratching his head and tearing his hair out it's worth the watch....

Set of quality Nichicon capacitors:    https://www.ebay.com/itm/275574674481?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=xoYngVoKTuO&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=V52-0s-ZTpm&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by TheWeldingFords
You have both a water temp sender and a temp sensor for the computer....

The sender gives a variable reading to your gauge, has a red with white stripe wire close to the distributor.

The ECT sensor has a light green/white wire and a black/yellow wire. It's near the front of the passenger valve cover (above the thermostat)

To test the gauge function ground the red/white wire then go in the cab and briefly turn the key to 'run'. The temp should **slowly** max out.
Turn the key off and remove the wire from ground.
You don't want to short out the gauge for long or you can damage it.

**Edit, just to be clear. The needle won't ever 'snap' awake. These gauges are well damped**
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Engine locks up after cranking

mat in tn
In reply to this post by TheWeldingFords
another possibility that sort of fits the symptoms isa leaky (stuck open) injector. this will bleed off pressure and more if there are more leaking.  in extreme cases it can flood a cylinder with fuel if the pump runs enough. mostly in modified (tampered with) systems. engines are compressors but they are NOT pumps.
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