Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

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Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Satchmono
Would anyone have recommendations between 3.73 vs 4.10 both are available in the local classifieds and not sure if anyone has recommendations for which one would be better for a supercab 4x4 1985F250.  Plan on having larger than stock tries and doing some towing but not much? Seems other discussion on other forums everyone seems to suggest 4.10? I have a 460 that I will probably switch at some point to EFI
1985 F250 Supercab 4X4 8'bed
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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

grumpin
I had an 86 4x4 with the 460. It had 3.55’s and I really liked them.

I towed occasionally and that 460 did great. The four trucks I owned before that had 4.10’s, I much prefer the 3.55 over the 4.10’s with that kind of torque.
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6 Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 Suburban LT K2500 454 4L80E
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
2000 Nissan Xterra XE 4WD 3.3 RE4R01A
Oregon
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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Satchmono
Since you are new you've surely not read much, if any, of my "transformation" of Big Blue from a rough-rider to a smooth(er) riding truck set up for overlanding.  And one of the things I did was to go with a D60 and SuperDuty springs with an RSK.  Major difference!

But I also installed a Scotty the mad porter-built 460 that was set up for EFI but I ran a carb on it for the first year.  And all the while I was kicking myself for not having gone to 4.10's instead of 3.55's.  Second gear starts with the ZF5 were just a bit too tall with the 33" tires as the engine just didn't want to pull below 1200 RPM.

However, when I installed the EFI I discovered that the issue had been the huge lower EFI plenum which wasn't designed for having fuel in the air.  It was soooo big it was like having a tunnel ram intake on the engine.  But with the EFI system squirting the fuel into the intake ports it now pulls fine from idle all the way up.

So now I'm happy with the 3.55's and I'm glad I didn't go with 4.10's.  If I'm towing I stay in 4th gear and it has all the power I need.  And if I'm running light I drop it into 5th and turn about 1900 R's at 65 MPH, just purring right along.  ("Light" is a relative term as BB has a winch, dual batteries, 3KW inverter, 2HP/4 gallon onboard air system, electric bed cover, and lots of other accessories so he weighs ~6600 lbs w/o a driver.)
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Nothing Special
Stating the obvious here, the front axle ratio needs to match the rear.  So unless you are planning on changing the rear axle ratio you need to get the same thing you already have.

That said, what you're probably thinking is that getting a new front axle is a good time to consider a gear ratio change.  If you can find a front axle with what you want you only need to re-gear one axle.
Bob
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
2015 E-450-based 28' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Satchmono
In reply to this post by grumpin
thanks for the info
1985 F250 Supercab 4X4 8'bed
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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Satchmono
In reply to this post by Nothing Special
yeah the only choices I can find locally are 3.73 and 4.10 but currently by back is a 3.55
1985 F250 Supercab 4X4 8'bed
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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Satchmono
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
I did read some but not a full deep dive, I was actually hoping to find a picture of your truck.  So the only reasonably priced front ends with matching back in combos I can find are 4.10 and 3.73. I do, down the line plan on going EFI as I will be living up in the cold mts and would like the easy for sure starts...So between the two gears you would say the 3.73 would be the better route if I am not doing anything too crazy and she is just mostly overlanding with occasional towing and some off-roading to get to far and away places out here in Utah?
1985 F250 Supercab 4X4 8'bed
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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, 3.73 would be the better route.  But what transmission do you have?

As for a pic of Big Blue:
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Satchmono
My god she is gorgeous! what size rims and tires are those.  I have an automatic, but I don't know for sure what "C" version it is.  I am pretty new to learning the specific guts to my truck or vehicles in general
1985 F250 Supercab 4X4 8'bed
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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

AmericanSavage
LOVE this pic Gary.  Where did you get the front Bumper, and what winch are you using?

BTW, I was reading your page where you talk about the Bullnose and quote from Wiki.  You mentioned about the clear v. amber lights.  

Mine was built in Louisville, and came with the clear lenses, with amber bulbs.  Dunno if that helps, but some info FWIW.



1980 Ford XLT F350
400 Engine (rebuilt to 406)
Holley 2300 500 CFM manual Choke Carb
Under Restore (1st time)
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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Thanks, guys.

The wheels are 10" wide and the tires are 285/75R16 Falken AT3W Wildpeaks, which are 33" in diameter.  The bumper is from Warn and was on the truck when I got it.  But there was no winch, so I added a 12K Smittybilt as well as an aux battery to run it.

A 460 of our era only came with one auto - the C6.  That's a 3-speed with no overdrive and no clutch in the torque converter so it is always slipping.  So I really wouldn't want to go as low as 4.10 since that will give you 3000 RPM at 65 MPH.  Compare that to 2700 with 3.73's and 2600 with 3.55's - still using the C6.  And all of that is with 33" tires.  I'm turning 1800 at the same speed with the ZF5 in 5th, or 2400 when in 4th.  (I have 250 RPM in the C6 calcs for torque converter slippage.)
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Oops, I forgot the turn signals.  

Does your truck also have slide locks?  And what was the manufacturing date?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Ford F834
Administrator
In reply to this post by Satchmono
Satchmono wrote
yeah the only choices I can find locally are 3.73 and 4.10 but currently by back is a 3.55
Probably another obvious side note, but 3.73 is a later gear offering, and most likely has the metric lug pattern. You would want the metric lug rear axle to go with it and the rims.

Given the choice I would lean toward the taller gear set. 4.10’s don’t play nice with modern highway speeds.
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Satchmono
Thanks!
1985 F250 Supercab 4X4 8'bed
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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Nothing Special
In reply to this post by Ford F834
Ford F834 wrote
Probably another obvious side note, but 3.73 is a later gear offering, and most likely has the metric lug pattern. You would want the metric lug rear axle to go with it and the rims....
Good point and maybe not so obvious.  The '99 and later trucks don't have the 8 on 6.5" bolt pattern, so you will want the matching rear axle and will need new rims.

Also I'm not sure that the spring perches, shock and track bar mounts on the front axle will just bolt in.  It's easy fab work if it needs to be done.  But it might need to be done.

But the plus is it should give you disk brakes in the rear.
Bob
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
2015 E-450-based 28' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

AmericanSavage
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Hi Gary,

No Slide locks.  Built Nov 1979.  Thanks for theinfo on the bumper, etc.  I want something like that on mine!  Where is the aux batt?  I assume it charges with the rest of the system, or a stand alone to the winch?
1980 Ford XLT F350
400 Engine (rebuilt to 406)
Holley 2300 500 CFM manual Choke Carb
Under Restore (1st time)
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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Interesting that you don't have slide locks on a truck built in Nov of '79.  Supposedly they didn't phase out the slide locks until of March of '81, and even then several plants continued to install them.  So I wonder if yours have been changed out.

As for Big Blue, the factory aux battery sits on driver's side where the coolant recovery reservoir usually goes.  I've included two pics below, the first showing BB now with the EFI, and the other showing it as it was with the carb.

The aux battery supports both the winch as well as the 3KW inverter - which powers the air compressor, among other things.  It is charged by the 130A 3G alternator, and the two batteries are paralleled via a 200A Cole Hersee Smart Battery Isolator.  Those isolators close when either battery voltage is above 13.2V for 2 minutes. And the batteries are isolated when both battery voltages are below 12.7V for 1 minute.  But I can force parallel for one minute with a switch in Mission Control.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Satchmono
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Let me ask you, if I ended up putting a 6R80 tranny instead of the C6... would that change your answer on the gear ratio?  I lost my opportunity for 3.73 and even though she's a tank and can't crawl off the line fast... wouldn't the 4.10 give me a little more push?  
1985 F250 Supercab 4X4 8'bed
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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Gary Lewis
Administrator
The 6R80 wasn't made in the 460 bolt pattern, so while there are ways to attach it they are expensive.  This one from Speed Gems is $1895 and it doesn't include the required controller for the transmission, which is another $1249.  So all up, not including the transmission, you are looking at $3144.

But yes, with the two overdrive gears of .87 and .69 you could easily go to lower differential ratios.  But the E4OD has a .71 OD ratio, so you could go with that tranny and still use lower ratios in the diffs.  And there's no $1895 adapter needed as the E4OD bolts right to the 460.  And there are $800 controllers for it, so instead of $3144 you'd be looking at $800.

HOWEVER, you said you might go with EFI.  If you were to go with Ford's EEC-IV or EEC-V EFI system you won't need a controller for the E4OD as the ECU controls both the EFI and the tranny.

So you need to think through the long-term plans.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Dana 50 to 60 swap gear recommendations

Satchmono
Thanks for being a wealth of knowledge...I plan to rework the axle to a Dana 60 first and then head to the inside, so I wanted to make sure I got the gears right for the later inside work.  I do see rebuilt E40Ds everywhere.  I want to make her as reliable as possible but also fun to hit the gas pedal and burn the dollars down the road.
1985 F250 Supercab 4X4 8'bed
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