Coil Springs- Love the TTB, but Hate the Leafs-Thoughts comments, or experience?

This idea has been in my mind for years since I've picked this truck up.

1. I want to Level or possibly lift the nose higher than the rea suspension slightly.

2. I'm really not all that interested in Front spring packs (so stiff)

3. I will most definitely cut and turn the balljoint mounts on the beams, not doing the traditional drop brackets

4. Is it easier to transplant the entire F150 TTB, and go to the Dana 44, or can I stay with the Dana 44HD
This approach brings my mind to thinking about spring rates and newer f250 Super-duty trucks spring rates and lengths

5. Possible follow on work would include different ring and pinion (possibly air locker) thus Dana 44 may be a more accessible choice?

6. Are there other options in TTB suspension that have more ring-pinion/locker options?

I do use a plow for the driveway (NOT commercially) but it it does see plow and winter use.

Has anyone done such a thing?

Happy Holidays all!

I'm not sure I understand.  Is yours an F250HD with the leaf springs or the F250 light duty with the coil springs?

In any event, here are my takes on the two different front suspensions:

Coils & TTB: I really like the coil spring/TTB suspension on Dad's truck as it rides and handles well.  I've not measured the travel/articulation, but I'd bet it approaches that of Big Blue's at the moment.

Leafs & TTB: I really dislike this combo.  Big Blue had that and the ride was horrible.  I pulled the sway bars, front and rear, and that helped but the ride was still brutal.  Then one day I realized that in spite of having new front springs I had ~2" of articulation in the front.  Maybe less as I could just slip my pointer finger between the spring and the bump stop when the truck was on the ground.

The problem appears to be that the TTB's are trying to both flex the springs vertically as well as twist the springs when a bump is hit.  That gives a very high spring rate and that creates the brutal ride and very limited articulation.

What I did was to install a D60 front axle using a Sky Offroad kit.  Plus I used SuperDuty springs with a rear shackle kit.  That transformed the truck.  The ride is now dramatically better, although not as good as a coil/TTB combo.  And the articulation is now 4x before at almost 8".

Plus it raised the front of the truck enough that I swapped from the 2" rear blocks to the 4" rear blocks and it was almost perfectly level with the front slightly higher than the rear.  And that's with a 460, massive dual batteries, and the winch.

I can't explain how much better the truck is with this combo.  I said "dramatically" but that doesn't really do it justice.  I highly recommend something of this sort if you are considering a change.  But there are other options, with some recently going with the later coil spring front end and D60 front axle, and that might be even better.

Gary, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure both the standard F-250 and the F-250HD used leaf springs with the TTB front axle.

To the original question, I've had two trucks with leaf sprung TTB ('85 F-250HD RCLB and '97 F-250HD CCSB) and one with coil spring TTB ('95 F-150 SCSB).

My experience with the '85 F-250 is much the same as Gary's, I didn't care for the ride (and i was a lot younger then!).

On the other hand I'm pretty satisfied with the ride of my '97 F-250.  I don't know what's different from the '85.  Maybe it's the big block and crew cab weight?  Maybe it's 100K more miles softening it up?  Or maybe Ford learned something?

Most of the time I had my '95 F-150 it was on a 2.5" lift (drop brackets and longer radius arms).  It definitely rode better than the '85, but I'm not sure it was better than the '97.  I never minded the ride, but you wouldn't mistake it for a car.

There are people who turn the TTB into a suspension that will handle Baja prerunning.  GoFastBroncos is one bulletin board I'm aware of.  Coil springs (or coil-overs) are the way they go, and I think they like longer swingarms with custom geometry.  Something in that line might be a good resource for you.

I don't know that I can help you much with the Dana44/Dana44HD question.  I was under the impression that both of those used the same diff, but I could well be wrong.  I have heard that the Dana50 TTB diff will bolt right in to a 44 or 44HD suspension.  I'm not sure what all that ends up changing (not a lot else I think), but it is considered a worthwhile upgrade by some.

I'm pretty sure you can get an ARB for any of these options.

I didn't know if the LD F250 had leaf or coil springs.  But if leaf springs then my dislike applies to them as well.  

But Big Blue not only has the weight of the big block but also dual batteries and the winch, and it rode like it had no springs.  So your '97 must have something different.

Gary Lewis wrote

I didn't know if the LD F250 had leaf or coil springs.  But if leaf springs then my dislike applies to them as well.  

There were no coil spring F250 4x4's.

The light duty trucks are weird. My LD F250 parts truck still had the heavy duty lug nuts like the HD and F350 trucks. Also had kingpins rather than ball joints (4x2), even in 1986.

Learn something every day.  

Hi Alex,
What is it about the leafs you dislike so much?
The fact that there's limited travel so the truck bottoms constantly?

I'm not sure what you could do with the D44 from an F-150.
Does your truck have 15" wheels and 5-5.5" lug pattern?
Would you miss the bigger calipers and rotors?

Without radius arms like a 150 you really have no way to locate a 44HD/50 front axle with coil springs.
I've seen people put the softer & taller 350 springs on a 250 but always with a reverse shackle because otherwise the stock front shackle has nowhere to go

Hi Alex,
I've often day-dreamed of doing something similar. I've tried numerous times to find some examples of coil conversion projects using the D44HD, but I've never had much luck. I've seen some examples using the D50, but not the D44HD for some reason. Near as I can tell it should be possible, but will require some engineering and quite a bit of custom fabrication.

Thanks for all of the inputs,

I hope that everyone has had great holidays, and here to the coming new year with less Truck-Fixing and more Truck-building!

I was inspired long ago (about 5 years now) by this truck: https://www.motortrend.com/features/1211or-stealth-prerunner-1982-ford-f250-4x4/
or a similar one that did a coil conversions and looked really drivable.

Yes the rides is lacking, but not that I really have any issue with it, just that it seems so close to bein able to be improved with coil springs especially since ford went to this spring type in it's later designs of the F350. Also I have had visions of the Baja 1000 (yes ONLY visions), which always drives my my style choices for my truck.

I my research of my truck and the crossover points in the best choices for suspensions I always seem to find more information for the Dana 44 i.e. aftermarket beams, differentials, and lockers. I figured if I'm to go down this path, of changing to the coil spring suspension, I had better understand what parts will be transplanted, and which parts should be upgraded.

This si not simply a all show situation I do access the offroad, not so much as a hobby, but whenever the need arises, to access fishing areas (Beach and Woods), go camping, or to simply help someone "out" of a position.  and now with the "overland" trend I can see this being a capable offroad vehicle, and possibly doing some camping too.

I'll look in the gofastbroncos.com, and I'm open to anyone who can translate which front end I have ( I think that it's the D44HD, but if someone can help determine this once and for all, as I'm still looking for the concrete answer)

Once again Happy Building with that "Bullnose" style,

The Dana 44 under your leaf sprung F-250 is "HD".

There were all kinds of 44 front axles produced by Dana including solid, but this generation saw Broncos and 150's get the TTB with radius arms and 250/350 (up to '85ish) trucks got the 44HD or D50 which use the springs to locate the axle fore and aft.

The biggest problem with 250's is ride height, or the distance between the beam and the snubber on the frame.
They also have very stiff leaves because of how the leaves torque and steering geometry is affected by ride height.

That's an interesting read.  But his goal was pretty lofty and must have cost a whole bunch.  So you need to set your goal and then plan towards it.  But going off-road for fishing or overlanding is a whole lot easier, and cheaper, to achieve than winning the Baja 1000.

It isn't the ride that is the big issue when thinking of suspension, but it is the amount of movement or articulation.  I think Big Blue w/o the SAS/RSK/D60 swap would have been able to make most of the Jeep trails in Colorado that we ran.  But I'm pretty sure there would have been many places where his 2" of articulation caused a front wheel to be in the air and we'd have lost drive from the front axle.  (I saw exactly that with a 4Runner following us.)  And w/o a locker in the front we might have been stuck.  So the 8" of articulation that change gave us made a huge difference and we never once needed the locker - although it was there.

So set your goal and then design for it.  My goal was overlanding, so I wanted a compromise of on-road manners and off-road capability.  For instance, when choosing tires I went with 33" tires because that size will get me through almost anything and yet won't increase the wind drag like 35" tires would.  And I went with Falken Wildpeak AT3W's as they are good both on the highway as well as the trail instead of mud boggers that would be better on the trail but horrible on the highway.  And to me, since almost all of the overlanding trails I'm reading about are hundreds of miles away, you need a balance of decent highway manners as well as trail capability.

Anyway, to determine what axle you have you might want to read the thread on 4x4 Front Axle identifying.  You won't have to read far before you come across the pic shown below.

I'd typed up a response to your Motor Trend article but decided the better of it.   😂
There's a lot going on there and not much of it is that accurate.

There have been extensive discussions on this forum about the 250's limitations and failings.
If you want to build new beams with radius arms and coil springs I'm interested in how you go about it!

ArdWrknTrk wrote

If you want to build new beams with radius arms and coil springs I'm interested in how you go about it!

Yes, me too!

Gary, Jim and Lucas,

Thanks Guys I know, it seems I'm just another Forum dreamer, but I'm done my fair share of fabrication for myself (no a Pro) and definitely experienced in welding.

I asked the Dana 44HD question since I had searched before and found this link to simply add confusion. (https://www.blueovaltrucks.com/tech-articles/dana-44-dana-44hd-ttb-front-axles/)  also in searching for suspension parts the term "3800lb axle" when my door tag reflects "Front GAWR 3305 Lbs", I believe that I had the 44HD  since there were 9/16" studs and it's an F250. I'm happy someone else thinks so too! So this helps on the front of confirming which parts I'm looking for and which parts I'm buying.

That being the case,  It looks like they have Lockers for the front "and probably don't need one" I'll concentrate my efforts on the TTB Leaf-to-Coils Swap, and when I begin to gather components, I'll look to the Admins to direct me where to place this evidence of fails, or accomplishments. :-)

Does anyone know the spring rates for Coils for the 150TTB or the later model  Full-float coil suspensiion? This is where an aspect of ride height will come into play.

Thanks for entertaining these questions, as it's not always easy to find a helpful ear to modifications for this vintage of truck,

I'm 100% for dreams becoming reality!    
Just look where Gary's gone with his Dad's Truck and Big Blue.

That's an interesting read Alex.
I've got to say that D44 HD were indeed used on trucks over 8,600 gvw.
The *F-250* D50 was typically only found under Supercabs and was optional in both regular and Crewcabs.

You can see how the much shorter beam of the HD/50 axle would dramatically effect steering geometry.
I'm going to say the beams for the two are almost the same and it's only the U-joints, spindles and axles that differ.

I'm not sure if you'd want to use 250/350 2WD spring towers to get the coils seated at the top. Whatever you choose to attach to the beams is going to be unique.
Your question about 150 spring rates ignores that the 250 rides higher (stock) and the beams being considerably shorter effects that rate.

Look long and hard at the 150 radius arms and mounts.
There are plenty of heavy duty tubular ones that have sold over the years.
Even though you may be a good fabricator/weldor, sometimes you cant buy the stock for what it costs to adapt COTS hardware.

Gary Lewis wrote

That's an interesting read.  But his goal was pretty lofty and must have cost a whole bunch.  So you need to set your goal and then plan towards it.  But going off-road for fishing or overlanding is a whole lot easier, and cheaper, to achieve than winning the Baja 1000....

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I'd typed up a response to your Motor Trend article but decided the better of it.   😂
There's a lot going on there and not much of it is that accurate....

Here's a link to that guys build thread on GoFastBroncos.com if you want a much longer read without the inaccuracies of a magazine article.  It's an incredible truck, but a very ambitious project!

Appreciate the direct link, Bob!  
I'm not up to an 81 page thread ATM but the guy's fab skills are on point.

A quick browse through really highlights the difference between the Eastern and Western off road experience.

You're welcome!  That's my favorite build thread / project vehicle I've ever seen.  I would LOVE to have something like that (and a place to use it!)

As far as western vs eastern, that truck's intended use is even more specialized.  It's a desert truck.  Not to say it couldn't do the trails in Utah, Colorado, or the Sierras.  But it's made for wide open spaces where you can run it wide open.

I don't know where in the 81 pages it is, but somewhere in there is (was?  I hope the links are still active) links to video of some test drives.  I think there was even one from inside the truck as he paralleled a desert race course showing him passing the race vehicles!

You're right Bob.
My distinction should have been rigs for the desert southwest.

I was thinking more the Mint 400 than Baja, but either one is covering a lot of ground quickly

This is great, and exactly what I had in n mind by posting this idea on this forum.

Some reality checks but most importantly, "thinkers" as well.

Thanks for the insight. Jim, I agree I have seen some of the amazing fab-work for the D44 off of the Broncos and F150s, I would consider that if it didn't reach me way into the geometry modifications that come with that. I realize that the beam differences don't provide the most symmetrical travel, but I would imagine that the addition of coils would make a significant difference enough that the truck would be come much more comfortable off road and a big less like smashing my head into the side windowI had imagined coils over the existing beams, since I live in the Northeast, and will never have enough runway to go fast, like the desert, although I will continue to have dreams of getting to the southwest someday..