Brake caliper coming loose

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Brake caliper coming loose

Lima Delta
Hey guys,
It started last year when I heard some grinding and rattling coming front the front right while driving. Pulling the wheel off, the brake caliper had come loose after the retaining key had somehow started working its way out of it's slot. The key can't fall out completely because it's ultimately contained by the wheel, however it did contact the back side of the wheel (grinding noise). Anyhow...
I put everything back together using a new key, spring and retaining bolt. A few days later it came loose again while driving. I put everything back together and played with the caliper and it seemed like there was some excessive up/down play in the assembly, which might have let the slot in the key jump over the retaining bolt....
I took another spring, trimmed the ends off and ground it down al little then inserted it as a shim under the existing spring. That seemed to fix the problem, and I haven't had any trouble with it for months but then this morning it happened again.
Nothing seems to have changed since my last repair. With the shim in between the spring and  the key there doesn't seem to be any up/down play in the caliper assembly. The retaining bolt doesn't seem to have backed out, but somehow the notch in the key is managing to slide past the retaining bolt...
Any insight as to what might be going on here?
Lucas
"The truck" - 1985 regular cab F250 4x4 - 351W HO, C6
"Beige Beast" (project) - 1981 regular cab F250 4x4 - 300 straight six, T18
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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

grumpin
Wheel bearing loose?

You’ve done a good job with it. Sometimes you get strange problems.
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona
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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

Lima Delta
grumpin wrote
Wheel bearing loose?
I'm wondering about that too. I'm not getting any noise and there doesn't seem to be any play in the hub though... I'll have to have a closer look.

One thing I just thought of is that since I repaired it last, I'm pretty sure I've been driving around with the hubs locked full-time (which I normally do in winter). The other day I unlocked the hubs for the first time since and it was shortly after that the problem recurred. Think that could that have something to do with it?
Lucas
"The truck" - 1985 regular cab F250 4x4 - 351W HO, C6
"Beige Beast" (project) - 1981 regular cab F250 4x4 - 300 straight six, T18
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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

FuzzFace2
There is no way I can see the hubs being locked or un-locked to be the cause.
If so it would be happening to a lot of trucks.

I have to ask a stupid question are you sure you are installing the spring on the right side of the key?
The spring should go on the side away from the bolt so the spring is pushing the key to the bolt.
I would also say once put back together try using a hammer & punch to push the key out to see if you can see what might be happening.

Is this on a 250 truck and have dual piston calipers?
Was the caliper replaced not long ago?
I want to say I remember reading something (other forum?) about caliper(s) falling off.
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

Rembrant
In reply to this post by Lima Delta
I know on my F150 when I did mine with a new hardware kit (and new calipers), I had to tap/hammer that piece in there, there was that much tension on the spring. That was lubed up, too.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the caliper opening is getting bigger, if that makes any sense...

The forward force of the caliper is wearing on the spindle? I dunno.

The cheap fix...if you're into that sort of thing...lol, is to weld some tabs on each side of that little opening that fits around the bolt, essentially making it impossible for it to "jump" the bolt. That's what I'd do at least...it's a cheap throw away part anyway. (I get it though...some people are not into welding on or modifying brake parts, but you did double shim it, so you have at least some tolerance for this type of shenanigans...lol).

PS: Stupid question...you do have the correct type of bolt in there right? It has a big shoulder on it where it fits in the little curved opening.
1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

Lima Delta
In reply to this post by FuzzFace2
FuzzFace2 wrote
There is no way I can see the hubs being locked or un-locked to be the cause.
If so it would be happening to a lot of trucks.

I have to ask a stupid question are you sure you are installing the spring on the right side of the key?
The spring should go on the side away from the bolt so the spring is pushing the key to the bolt.
I would also say once put back together try using a hammer & punch to push the key out to see if you can see what might be happening.

Is this on a 250 truck and have dual piston calipers?
Was the caliper replaced not long ago?
I want to say I remember reading something (other forum?) about caliper(s) falling off.
Dave ----
Dave, yeah, I made double sure that the spring is on the right side of the key. That's definitely a mistake that could be made, but it's good.
It is a 4x4 F250 with the dual piston calipers which are original as far as I know... at least they are old enough that I had to replace the bleeder screws a little while back as they were totally seized. I was wondering if new calipers might correct the problem, but I can't see how the fit would really be any different....
I did a search already about "loose" calipers, I guess i'll try again looking for hits about them falling off lol

Lucas
Lucas
"The truck" - 1985 regular cab F250 4x4 - 351W HO, C6
"Beige Beast" (project) - 1981 regular cab F250 4x4 - 300 straight six, T18
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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

Lima Delta
In reply to this post by Rembrant
Rembrant wrote
I know on my F150 when I did mine with a new hardware kit (and new calipers), I had to tap/hammer that piece in there, there was that much tension on the spring. That was lubed up, too.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the caliper opening is getting bigger, if that makes any sense...

The forward force of the caliper is wearing on the spindle? I dunno.

The cheap fix...if you're into that sort of thing...lol, is to weld some tabs on each side of that little opening that fits around the bolt, essentially making it impossible for it to "jump" the bolt. That's what I'd do at least...it's a cheap throw away part anyway. (I get it though...some people are not into welding on or modifying brake parts, but you did double shim it, so you have at least some tolerance for this type of shenanigans...lol).

PS: Stupid question...you do have the correct type of bolt in there right? It has a big shoulder on it where it fits in the little curved opening.
Hi Cory,
Ok, my left side caliper has about the same kind of fit where the key and spring need to be tapped in with a hammer. Seems odd to me that the fit on the other side is so different! The shim that I added takes all the play out of the caliper, but it's still possible for me to cajole the key and spring in by hand.
Welding the key is something I hadn't considered, but I'll consider it now lol! The bolt is the correct one with the bulge just under the cap flange. I had also been considering making my own bolt with a bigger "bulge"...
In either case, I'd still like to understand what the cause is. Again, it seems odd that there would be wear on these parts that would cause that much play between them... Maybe the spindle got bent out of shape somehow?

Lucas
Lucas
"The truck" - 1985 regular cab F250 4x4 - 351W HO, C6
"Beige Beast" (project) - 1981 regular cab F250 4x4 - 300 straight six, T18
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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

85lebaront2
Administrator
In reply to this post by Lima Delta
I had to do some digging, Ford changed the caliper design and mounting between 1985 and 1986. Darth uses two strange split pins with rubber between them, I remember dealing with the retention system you have on my 1977 F150 and possibly on some of my big Ford cars.

The only things I can come up with as a reason, would be (a) caliper is either worn a lot where it slides on the bracket or (b) bracket is worn or bent so the fit is loose. The only way I can think of to determine which is the cause will involve a bit of measuring. The width of both the caliper slide areas and the spacing of the caliper mounting bracket will need to be determined.

Unfortunately, I imagine the caliper mount is part of the spindle and not removable like a 2WD generally is. If it is removable, I would try (even though it will be a pain) checking the fit on the opposite side caliper to see if there is a difference in the fit.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

FuzzFace2
In reply to this post by Lima Delta
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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

Lima Delta
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
85lebaront2 wrote
The only things I can come up with as a reason, would be (a) caliper is either worn a lot where it slides on the bracket or (b) bracket is worn or bent so the fit is loose. The only way I can think of to determine which is the cause will involve a bit of measuring. The width of both the caliper slide areas and the spacing of the caliper mounting bracket will need to be determined.
Yes, I'm thinking I'm going to have to try to "blueprint" the brackets as best I can. Seems more likely that the problem is with the caliper, but I'd like to know for sure before I spend any money on parts.
Lucas
"The truck" - 1985 regular cab F250 4x4 - 351W HO, C6
"Beige Beast" (project) - 1981 regular cab F250 4x4 - 300 straight six, T18
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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

Lima Delta
In reply to this post by FuzzFace2
Thanks Dave,
Interesting to read through that thread. Seems like a funny coincidence that, like me, the op and at least one other poster reported the issue on the passenger side only.

Well, I guess I have some measuring to do today lol
Lucas
"The truck" - 1985 regular cab F250 4x4 - 351W HO, C6
"Beige Beast" (project) - 1981 regular cab F250 4x4 - 300 straight six, T18
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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

FuzzFace2
I did not read through it this time to see what the fix was but did remember seeing it.
Hope it helps
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

BigBrother-84
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Lima Delta
I hit EXACTLY the same issue, couple of years ago, after 115 miles of high speed gravel road...  Completely LOST the spring and key (although the bolt was always in place).  Calliper was "noising" in the wheel.
With the help of a little garage at Parent, (yes, it's the village name), we were able to make a temporary fix, to keep the calliper at its place long enough to go back home.

Back to home, had to weld a bit the calliper end, to fill the loose at the key.  Was temporary, finally changed the callipers, too worn.

Since that time I keep a «bolt+spring+key» spare kit in glove box.  Even with good callipers.  No risk to take.




Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.
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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

Lima Delta
I did another temporary fix. Last week I pulled the key and spring out and inserted a thicker shim and haven't had any trouble... yet.
I decided to just go ahead and get new calipers. They should be in tomorrow, so we'll see what happens!

Cheers!
Lucas
Lucas
"The truck" - 1985 regular cab F250 4x4 - 351W HO, C6
"Beige Beast" (project) - 1981 regular cab F250 4x4 - 300 straight six, T18
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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I think replacing the calipers is a good plan.  Hopefully that will solve the problem.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

Lima Delta
Gary Lewis wrote
I think replacing the calipers is a good plan.  Hopefully that will solve the problem.  
I thought I'd follow up in case anyone else comes across the same issue.
Having been driving on the new calipers (which included all new keys, springs and hold-down bolts) for a while now, the problem seems to be fixed (knocks on wood).
I was a little concerned initially because when installing the new keys and springs I was able to push them in easily by hand, making me wonder if the fit was too loose.

If anything does come loose again, I'll really be at a loss since as far as I was able to determine the mounting brackets on both spindles measure out to be the same on both sides. In any case, seems relatively safe to say that if your caliper falls off while driving, you almost certainly need new calipers lol
Lucas
"The truck" - 1985 regular cab F250 4x4 - 351W HO, C6
"Beige Beast" (project) - 1981 regular cab F250 4x4 - 300 straight six, T18
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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Thanks for the follow up.  The fact that it hasn't come off again is a good sign that you probably have it whipped.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

Lima Delta
Hi guys,
Coming home yesterday, that passenger side caliper came loose again after a hard stab on the brakes. Just to review, that's a brand new caliper and hardware.
I'm thinking the problem has got to be with the steering knuckle. I have no way to measure the brackets on the knuckle accurately enough to make a determination of wear, so I'm on the verge of finding some replacement knuckles.
Question: I was looking at the parts lists trying to determine if there are different versions for the same axle, but it's all as clear as mud to me - does anyone know if the knuckles for the 8 lug Dana 44HD axles are all the same?

Thanks!
Lucas
"The truck" - 1985 regular cab F250 4x4 - 351W HO, C6
"Beige Beast" (project) - 1981 regular cab F250 4x4 - 300 straight six, T18
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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

Gary Lewis
Administrator
It is a very confusing area, so I understand why it isn't clear to you.  But let me try to work my way through it.

First, you have to go to the Front Driving Axle Cross Reference Guide and find out what parts list your axle uses.  Here's a portion of that guide and I've highlighted the only ones that are 44HD's.  Turns out they use parts lists 30.3C and 30.3E.



And then you go to Section 30, which is the "30" part of 30.3C & E.  And scroll down until you see "Front Axle Parts Lists 3A Thru 3M" since both C and E lie between A and M.  And then scroll down until you find Spindle Assy 3105.  At that point you look at Column C and find that those axles use spindles E6TZ 3105-E.  Then move on to Column E and lo and behold those axles use the same spindle!

So, to answer your question, yes I believe that all 44HD axles use the same spindles.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Brake caliper coming loose

Lima Delta
Aha, thank you so much Gary!
I'd like to say I would have figured that out, but I'm not sure I would have lol
Cheers!

PS. New tires look good!
Lucas
"The truck" - 1985 regular cab F250 4x4 - 351W HO, C6
"Beige Beast" (project) - 1981 regular cab F250 4x4 - 300 straight six, T18
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