Big Blue

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
45 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Steve - The wiring harness and air inlet system are from a '96 CA-spec F250 w/a 460.

As for connecting the two batteries, I didn't explain that there's an optional that I'll install to force the two batteries into parallel.  Not sure where I'll install the switch, but I'll also put a warning light on the dash to show they are paralleled.

And, I had read TSB 97-03-10, although on here instead of SuperMotors.

And while I won't argue about the efficiency issue, I do plan to have dual exhaust.  Part of the plan is to use as much of Huck as I can, and one of the things I'll use is its dual exhaust system.  However, I won't go back w/the glass packs as I don't like the noise the current glass packs give.  Instead I'm going with Magnaflows as I like the low rumble they give.  But, to each his own.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

85lebaront2
Administrator
Gary Lewis wrote
And while I won't argue about the efficiency issue, I do plan to have dual exhaust.  Part of the plan is to use as much of Huck as I can, and one of the things I'll use is its dual exhaust system.  However, I won't go back w/the glass packs as I don't like the noise the current glass packs give.  Instead I'm going with Magnaflows as I like the low rumble they give.  But, to each his own.
Steve and Gary, Darth's exhaust system is still essentially stock (original muffler and tailpipe) it is dual from the engine to the muffler with a cross pipe where the single O2 sensor on the 1990 parts truck was mounted (it now has my wideband there). This system (which originally had no cross pipe) was a mid 1984 through 1987 system. The 1990 was dual to the catalytic converter inlet (O2 sensor just forward) then a large single from the converter to the muffler and dual tailpipes. The only change I made before the EFI/E4OD change was to remove the screens from the end of the tailpipe at the recommendation of my local exhaust shop, I had asked about a lower restriction muffler and was told I would gain more from that then what he could sell me. the only issue I ever had was pulling the 5th wheel up the on ramp to the interstate before everything was fully warmed up, when I let off the throttle when the road leveled off, my wife reported she saw a rather large flame from the tailpipe which I heard as a loud boom from inside, the Thermactor system ignited the remaining mixture in the exhaust manifolds. He also told me when I drove down to him after doing the EFI conversion and E4OD, to remove the muffler heat shield as it would eventually rust the muffler from the outside. The 1996 bed has heat shields on the bottom as far back as the rear axle location.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, that's essentially the system that I took off Huck and plan to use on Big Blue.  But, it has no cats and is dual the whole way.  Fortunately the guy that cut the frame also cut the exhaust - right ahead of the mufflers.  So I'll use the exhaust pipes as is, and have someone graft on the muffs and tail pipes.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

Steve83
Banned User
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
85lebaront2 wrote
The 1990 was dual to the catalytic converter inlet (O2 sensor just forward) then a large single from the converter to the muffler and dual tailpipes.
That's how all '87-96 EFI exhausts are built; other than the dual tailpipes on the bigger V8s (& the unique Lightning exhaust).

85lebaront2 wrote
...the muffler heat shield as it would eventually rust the muffler from the outside.
Mine still haven't.  So I don't doubt that a lot of mufflers in your area rust out, but it's not due to the heat shield (which keeps the muffler hotter, and therefore drier).
85lebaront2 wrote
The 1996 bed has heat shields on the bottom as far back as the rear axle location.
All these trucks that I've seen have body heat shields along nearly the entire Right frame rail.  Certainly all '82-96 Broncos are fully-shielded from the firewall-to-floorpan seam (11398), under the passenger seat (114A46), back to the gas tank (112B26):

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

85lebaront2
Administrator
First, 1987 460s were still carbureted as were the 351 HO engines in the F250/350 over 8500 GVWR. Here are the diagrams from Walker's catalog, they do not show the 168" wheelbase, bit the difference would be in the intermediate pipes (different lengths, used for wheel bases over 133") the 1990 is the parts truck I used, bed on Darth is a 1996 as 1985-86 dually beds are unique to those years and virtually impossible to find in any condition. Unfortunately I do not have any pictures of the bottom side of the bed from when it was being prepped. The 1990 had a heat shield next to the mid-frame tank, that after fighting with trying to make it fit the 1986 frame I just left it off, I did retain the E4OD right side heat shield as even though I do not have a cat, the pipes still run right by that area. There were no other frame rail heat shields on either truck.

1985-7 exhaust system:


1990 460 exhaust system:
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

Steve83
Banned User
85lebaront2 wrote
First, 1987 460s were still carbureted...
Yeah, so were 5.8Ls.  That's why I said EFIs only.  And the heat shields are only on the body - they're along (near) the R frame rail, but not on it.  The only frame heat shields I'm aware of are on the Right radius arm bushing, and the '87-89 (gas) fuel reservoir.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

85lebaront2
Administrator
Yes, Darth has the underfloor, riveted on heat shields, real PITA with the aftermarket seats that were in there when I bought the truck. The original bed did not have any heat shields, but the forward tank had the "ambulance" chassis shield on the tank causing it to rust out where dirt collected. Since the exhaust cross pipe is 35" further away on a crew cab it got ditched when I replaced the tank.

When I re-did the interior, I added extra heat insulation in the front footwells, rear footwell and a section over the underside heat shields. The front seat passenger no longer has the "hot foot" issue the truck always had.

When I did my EFI conversion, the intermediate pipes had been replaced with a welded in section years before, I had the shop use a salvaged flange from a catalytic converter and connect the existing dual pipes to it, allowing a removable front down pipe set (still requires temporarily removing the transmission crossmember to get it off) which will be done when the new engine goes in.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

kramttocs
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary Lewis wrote
As for connecting the two batteries, I didn't explain that there's an optional that I'll install to force the two batteries into parallel.  Not sure where I'll install the switch, but I'll also put a warning light on the dash to show they are paralleled.
I've moved into getting all my ducks in a row for the dual battery install. What product are you going with for the switch? I like the simplicity/look of the oem solenoid but the parallel mode to allow jump starting is a nice option.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I'm going to use a Cole Hersee 48530 Smart Isolator on Big Blue, but I have its little brother, the 48525, on our boat.  The bigger one is rated at 200a and the little one at 85a continuous, which fits the output capability of the two alternators.

The documentation is here, but my favorite features are:

Automatic Parallel: The two batteries are paralleled when either battery's voltage is above 13.2V for 2 minutes.  So you can pull the auxiliary battery down to zero and it won't connect that one in parallel to the starting battery during starting - like the factory relay does.

Automatic Disconnect: The two batteries are isolated when both battery voltages are below 12.7V for 1 minute.  So if your aux battery dies and it starts taking everything the alternator can put out and still the voltage goes south it'll drop it out of the circuit.  However, it doesn't work if the main battery goes south.
 I know that for sure.  

Forced Parallel: One little switch can force it to parallel the two batteries, like if the main has gone south and the aux is up.

LED: There's an output that tells you when the batteries are in parallel.  I check that on the boat frequently.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

Steve83
Banned User
In reply to this post by kramttocs
kramttocs wrote
...parallel mode to allow jump starting is a nice option.
The factory-style relay can do that, with the addition of the switch shown here:



Don't use the relay with the LED - it's not necessary.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

kramttocs
Administrator
Thanks guys! I find this to be a neat setup - the whole isolation stuff.

Couple questions on those diagrams that may already be answered in those photos but it takes me a while to digest it all (Gary - if this should be a new thread, happy to do so):

1. Diagram A. The harness with the white/purple and the other wire that comes from the firewall.
     a. Is this a standalone harness?
     b. I get that the wht/ppl comes from the fuse box and to the relay but what does the other wire come from/go to?
2. Diagram A. The relay takes the physical place of the junction point and uses the left terminal for the same purpose, correct?

What is the max alternator amp rating that the relay E5TZ-14677-A can handle? Google didn't show much except a FTE comment about it being at most able to handle 100.


Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

kramttocs
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Showing my ignorance on the 12v minutia but with 12.7 being the resting value, is it expected when the truck isn't running that if the batteries are good with no draw that they would stay in parallel indefinitely?

In real world though is it normal for them to both drop below this and thus isolate pretty quickly?
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I'm going to let Steve address the other questions as those are his wiring diagrams.

On the capability of that relay, the alternators of the day were only capable of ~70a, with one that the F & U series trucks never got being capable of 100a.  Since it isn't likely Ford over-spec'd the thing, which would have cost them money, it is probably capable of no more than 100a.

And it is interesting that Cole Hersee has a relay that handles 85a and one that handles 200a.  Might those be industry standard specs?

In my experience on the boat, the relay drops out within seconds of the key being turned off.  I suspect that the coil current of the relay is enough to drop the voltage to the 12.7.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

kramttocs
Administrator
Thanks Gary.
Mine is a 150 so looks like that makes the decision for me. Good question on the 85/200. I was looking at one company that offered 75/125 models so not sure how they decide on the limits.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

Steve83
Banned User
In reply to this post by kramttocs
kramttocs wrote
Diagram A. The harness with the white/purple and the other wire that comes from the firewall.
     a. Is this a standalone harness?
If you mean View A in the diagram I posted, and if you mean harness 13A705; yes, it's a separate (optional) section of harness.  The main (dash) harness section is  14401.
kramttocs wrote
b. I get that the wht/ppl comes from the fuse box and to the relay but what does the other wire come from/go to?
You'd have to look up 14K067.  Maybe trailer brake or battery charge.
kramttocs wrote
The relay takes the physical place of the junction point and uses the left terminal for the same purpose, correct?
Yes.
kramttocs wrote
What is the max alternator amp rating that the relay E5TZ-14677-A can handle?
They're not directly related.  It would work with a dinky 60A or a 250A welding alternator, assuming the factory wiring (or better) in good condition.

But if you want to use the aux.batt. for jump-starting, you must use the "Isolator Switch" diagram, which includes replacing the wire from the main to the junction with a heavier cable.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

kramttocs
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Good visuals for the Cole Hersee

D-617_Smart_Battery_Iso.pdf
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Have a look at this place:  http://www.texasindustrialelectric.com/electrical.asp

No, I'm not shilling.
They seem to have a huge variety of high quality components, and I want to see places like this stay in business under siege of Amazon and the like.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Jim - I like shopping locally or helping people who have helped me by buying from them.  But when the price diff is almost 2x it makes it hard.  That isolator is $103 on Amazon and $196 on that site.  

Scott - That's a good file to have as it explains the different modes better than the other one.  But, it also tells me something I didn't know - the switch to parallel the batteries only needs to be a momentary.  The isolator parallels the batteries for 1 minute when the switch closes.  That's not said on the other sheet.

However, there's something that is said on that sheet that can be an issue.  It says "Allows bi-directional charging from alternator or from shore/campground power charger/converter when available."  But what it doesn't say is that it will parallel the batteries when the charger gets either battery to 13.2 volts.  And, if you are using a small enough charger, like a Battery Tender, the pull-in current of the isolator is more than the output of the charger.  So the combined battery voltage starts down until you get to 12.7, at which point it opens again and the batteries start charging.

I didn't like that, so I put a relay in the ground circuit to the isolator.  The relay is pulled in by the ignition circuit, so when the engine is off and the chargers are on the isolator is dead.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

kramttocs
Administrator
Gary - I think I get what you are saying and it might be a concern I have an onboard battery tender on Camano.

Do you see the pull-in current specified? I called Littelfuse and they didn't know.
I think my onboard is a 1amp and I checked my Battery Tender Jr's and they are 750mA.


Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I looked and couldn’t find it. But I can measure mine. However, it won’t be until later tomorrow or maybe Saturday.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

123