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Big Blue's Seat Platform
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Big Blue's Seat Platform
 
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I'm seriously considering making a seat platform to fit the captain's chairs into Big Blue. So this thread will be to document my thinking and planning and then later the work to do it.
First, some may be asking what a "seat platform" is. Ford didn't put the buckets or captain's chairs in the regular or crew cab trucks, but in the 90's there was a platform that would bolt into those trucks and then you could bolt the buckets or captain's chairs to them. But those platforms are currently selling for about $400 and don't actually put the seats quite where they ought to be. I know 'cause I have one of those platforms and have bolted captain's chairs into Big Blue. How do I know the seats aren't where they ought to be? We have the 1985 Body Builder's Book and it has info with regard to seat positioning, as shown below. (NB: I've added those highlights to my copy of the book and it'll show up in the one in the link above in the near future.) Here's the way I read that document as well as some readings off Big Blue's captain's chairs: Seat Bottom Angle: I've circled in red the 8 degree spec, and I think that means the bottom of the seat is leaned back that much from "level", and I assume the door sill is "level" as that's where I took my measurement. But Big Blue's driver's captain's chair is leaned back twice that at 16 degrees.Leg Room: The max leg room, measured from the throttle to the joint between the seat bottom and seat back (I think) is 40.98". But Big Blue's is 40" as best I can measure, and that's as I expected since it feels like I'm sitting a bit farther forward than with the bench seat.Window Opening: I take the window opening measurement point to be where the door's outer skin turns in to form the window. And I think the "Frame Datum Line" is the top of the frame, and measuring from there to the bottom of the window opening is supposed to be 14.25" + 13.82" = 28.07". That works pretty well as I measure Big Blue's distance to be 28".Seat Height: As I read it the joint between the seat bottom and back is supposed to be 14.25" below the window opening. And as best I can measure Big Blue that measurement is 14". But that's questionable as the captain's chairs have large bolsters on the edges and I'm measuring at the top of the bolster where it hits the back.So what all this tells me is that I have Big Blue's seat tilted back 8 degrees too far. And the seat is about 1" too far forward. That's great because the top of the seat back is hitting the rear window, and that is preventing the seat from going farther backwards. So if I'd change the angle I could probably get the seat back 1" more w/o hitting the rear window. 
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
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Ok, with that being said here's my thinking on how to make said platform.
First, the original bench seat bolted into the truck using some mounts that will unbolt from the seat. In the pic on the left you can see the mounts on Big Blue's original bench seat. There are two bolts per mount holding them to the seat itself, as shown by the red circles. Then in the pic on the right you see those mounts bolted into Dad's truck and angle iron laid across them. I'm hoping the front and rear pieces of angle can be bolted to the mounts that bolt to the floor. Then there will be 4 pieces of angle, 2 on the driver's side to take the bolts for the driver's chair and 2 on the passenger's side for that chair. And there will be two more in the middle for the console, although they aren't drawn in. I have one piece of angle laying in there to represent the far left piece, and then red lines to represent the other three for the seats, but nothing for the console. Anyway, my plan is to cut these pieces so they'll slip up between the front and rear pieces from the bottom. Then I'll weld them to the front and rear pieces so the whole thing is rigid. I have to do a lot of measuring in order to know how far in the seats need to set, but I'm thinking that if I cut and drill the front and rear pieces and bolt them tightly to the mounts that go to the floor I can then pull that out and put it on the work table. Then I'll pull the platform I have in Big Blue at present and put it on the work table as well. Since the seats bolt to that platform just right in/out I'll know where the fore/aft supports need to go in my platform. Does that make any sense?   
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Ok Gary, I'm now a follower of this topic!
 That could be a solution to put the seat on a correct back-forth sliding position. But I am wondering about the comfort fact: If you lower the angle 8° off, will the seat be too "horizontal" to offer a good seating position? Are the lower part of captain chairs designed similarly of a bucket seat one?
Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022. Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel. |
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In reply to this post by BigBrother-84
Good question, Jeff. I just sat in the driver's chair and like the way it fits. If I put my big feet below the clutch and brake pedals then there's support for my thighs right out to the edge of the seat, and that's comfortable for long drives.
But the fact that I have to put my feet below/behind the pedals is part of the problem. It just feels "tight". I measured on my newer truck, Blue, and as best as I can measure there's almost 42" from that joint to the throttle pedal. I wonder if I should try spacing the rear of the seat up on Big Blue? That would let me test the angle, but if the seat is still too far forward that's not really a good test. What would be better would be to have adjustability built into the seat platform. For instance if there was a way to really use the adjustability of the bench seat mount, which is 4 3/4". And if we put the crossmembers on top of the bench seat mount, as shown below, that will work. In the pic on the right I've put the fore/aft piece below the crossmembers, and that would put the track mounting point right at the top of the bench seat mount - 8 1/4" above the door sill. That would drop the seat by 1 1/4", which might be a problem as it puts my legs more straight out and shortens the distance to the throttle. In the one on the left I show the fore/aft piece on top of the crossmember. That raises the seat by the depth of the flange, which is 1 1/2" in this case. In Big Blue the seat tracks are currently 9 1/2" above the door sill, and the bench seat mount tops are 8 1/4" above the door sill, so the tracks would only be 1/4" higher than now and that might work out nicely. And it puts a more "finished" look on the end of the platform. But I still need to figure out how to change the angle of the seat...  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
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Did some work on the CAD drawing. Don't have the dimensions for placing the inboard fore/aft supports for the seats. Nor for the ones for the console. So I didn't draw them in.
Laid out this way I can use the adjustment on the bench seat mounts to move the captain's chairs back and forth, and still use the fore/aft adjustment on the driver's chair. I think that will let me get it right where I want it. But I still have to figure out how to get the angle I want. Sure would be nice if I could figure out how to make that adjustable. 
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
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Since our kids and grandkids come to see us tomorrow I'm not going to have much time so drew in lots of things on the CAD drawing.
The green pieces are the fore/aft pieces of angle onto which the seat tracks will bolt. The outside pieces are properly located but the inside ones aren't and will have to be measured and moved. The blue pieces are the console mounts and the locations are just guesses. There are two mounts in the front of the console and one in the rear. I want to move it back so the shifter doesn't hit my drinks, but like the current height so will have to measure and move these as well. 
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
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Bill - I'm hoping that the way I'm doing this will work for everyone. For instance, I'm measuring seat height and angle off the door sill that should be the same for all trucks. However, I do need to take a pic and show how I'm measuring so everyone can do the same.
But I've been thinking about the seat height & angle and have come to two conclusions that I want to bounce off of all y'all: Height: I can raise the seat using spacers, but cannot lower it.Angle: I can also change the seat angle with spacers. But raising the rear of the seat to decrease the angle will also raise the seat.Given that, I've reconsidered how I want to position the angle iron I use. Instead of going with the arrangement shown in the pic on the left, which raises the seat by the width of the flange on the angle, I want to go with the arrangement on the right. That puts the seat track at essentially the same height as the top of the bench seat mount and gives me room to use spacers. (However, I'll flip the angle on the ends so that the vertical piece goes up rather than down in order to give a closed look to the platform.) You might think that using spacers is a bad idea as the seat tracks need to be supported the whole way. However, Ford didn't support the tracks the whole way. For instance, the 90's seat pan that is in Big Blue at present only supports the tracks about 1/3 of the way as they mount onto raised spots on the pan. So I think it will be fine to use spacers between the fore/aft angles and the seat tracks in order to get the angle I'm looking for. And speaking of spacers and angles, the math to determine the height of the spacer, aka "opposite side" in trig speak, is the tangent of the angle times the length of the adjacent side. In this case the angle is 8 degrees and the adjacent side is the distance between the two bolts holding the track on, and that is 12.75". So the spacer in the rear would have to be 1.79" tall to tilt the seat forward 8 degrees. But the seatback is 30" tall and tilting it forward 8 degrees would move the top of the seatback forward 4.2", and that's a lot. I think I'd be happy tilting it forward half that as it would allow the seat to go back about that far w/o the top of the seat hitting the rear window. So maybe I need a 7/8" spacer? Anyone see a problem with this approach?  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Enjoy these precious moments!  Captain seats' angle can wait.
Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022. Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel. |
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Doing some more thinking about the seat platform. In this snippet it shows that from the center of the front axle to the "hip" point with the seat fully back the measurement is 61.26". I'm not sure that it is safe to assume that the measurement will work on Big Blue due to his SAS/RSK work, but I'll measure on Dad's truck to some spot and do the same on BB to see if it is the same. However, for most people that should be a good measurement.
 Next, I'd really would like to know where the "hip" point is. And in spite of the "Do not scale" on the drawing above I did some on-screen measurement and it looks like the center of the circle to the back of the seat is ~1/3 of the distance shown as "5.51" so I'm going to call it 2".  Next round I hope to take pics to show how I'm measuring and include them here.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
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Yes, I understand that you are very busy with family during the holidays.
I was glad to spend some time with my brother, his boys and new dog over Thanksgiving.  New stock is nice but old bed frames are mankind's greatest gift to the hobbyist weldor. 😉
Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake. Too much other stuff to mention. |
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I got Blue, the 2015 F150, loaded with a roll-top desk, bicycle, set of dishes, tote full of memorabilia, etc. And that went so quickly that I had time to do some measuring in the shop. I hope to get back out there tomorrow and actually compile a table of the measurements, but I thought I'd get some of the how-to pics posted.
But first, yes the bed rails I have are one at 1 1/2 x 1 1/2" and one at 1 1/2 x 2". Obviously not a matched set but quite workable. And quite sturdy. In the first pair of pics I'm showing how I'm measuring the seat angle by using the door sill as a reference. It appears to be parallel to the top of the frame, which is what Ford referenced in the illustration, but the door sill is a lot easier to get to than the top of the frame. Big Blue's door sill is dead on level, and the seat bottom is pitched back 14 degrees, which is obviously a lot more than the 8 degrees the book calls for. And in the second pair of pics you can see how I measured seat height, again using the door sill as a reference. But unlike a bench seat the captain's chairs have bolsters so you have to subtract the height of the bolster over that of the seat bottom, as shown in the pic on the right. Before I build the base I'm going to put the bench seat back in Big Blue and measure it as well since I'd like to get the seating position of the captain's chairs as close to that of the bench seat as is possible. Anyway, I wanted to record how I'm measuring so I can get back to it and others can as well.    
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
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