AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

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AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

Gsmblue
Oh boy. The drama of a non factory set up!

My Bronco has a 351W with a Edlebrock 1406 and a AOD transmission.

When changing from a C6 to an AOD the transmission shop reused the C6 transmission kickdown rod as a TV rod on the AOD. AND it is installed really poorly.

Today I stumbled across a YouTube video from Monster Transmissions that uses a set of parts from Lokar to correctly set up this carb/tranny combo.

It looks so simple in their videos I just had to order up the parts. With shipping that is ~$300..

Part 1 is the transmission end:



Part 2 is the more interesting carb end.



My Bronco has speed control so I will need to make sure that still works too.

Could this be the solution to my transmissions issues?????
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

LARIAT 85
The video below is the best I have ever seen regarding how the carburetor geometry must be correct for the AOD to function correctly with a TV cable. I wish I had found this when I trying to figure all this out on my own. The mechanic is describing an aftermarket carburetor mated to a GM 700R4, but the exact same principles apply to the Ford AOD with an aftermarket carburetor:

Lucille:  1985 Ford F150 XLT Lariat

*Colors:  Dark Canyon Red exterior, Canyon Red interior
*Engine: 5.0, CompCams 31-230-3, "Thumper" E7 heads, Edelbrock Performer intake, Autolite 4100 carburetor, DuraSpark II ignition, Thorley Tri-Y headers, Flowmaster dual exhaust, H-pipe.
*Drivetrain:  AOD transmission, 3.55 gears, 2wd.



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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

Machspeed
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gsmblue
Not sure how long you ran your truck with that configuration, but I'm thinking that if the trans isn't jacked, you're a lucky man. From what I've read, that adjustment is critical to the life of the trans.
John

"Blackie" - 1986 F150 4x4 - Mildly warmed over 351W HO - Original owner
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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

Gsmblue
Thanks for the video, I will watch that with great interest.

The transmission has never been "right" and I suspect it is due to that TV linkage. I think it has about 2.5k or so on it.

Just this week it started to behave really badly so yes, it could be done.

Getting this linkage is something I have to sort out. The rod set up, although not unique, is not adjustable.
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

mat in tn
very important. I use aod's a lot and tv adjustment and "range of operation" is critical for the life of the trans. understanding that the amount of movement is mechanically tied to the throttle movement is only half of the equation. the size of the throttle MUST be taken into consideration, although often overlooked. consider that you need to move the throttle more when opening a single butterfly of 1.75" versus opening two of like size. you only move half as much to create the same volume of air and fuel therefore applying more torque to the transmission, but you have not told the transmission that you were doing so. therefore, you are pushing harder on the clutches than they are expecting! the throttle valve in the valve body needs to match torque input with clutch holding to avoid slipping. often, we see oversized carbs or throttle bodies installed with no changes to the adjustments and then the aod gets blamed for being weak. not really the case. the measurements get tricky but essentially when you go bigger on the throttle size then you need a faster acting tv response. tightening the cable only does so much and often gets harsher shifts and downshifts. when really the range of operation is off. I know of no commercial fix and usually make my own brackets.
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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

85lebaront2
Administrator
Mat, those of us who are old enough to (a) remember and (b) have worked on the old GM Hydra-Matics are pretty familiar with the mechanical throttle linkage systems and fine tuning of them. The single coupling 4 speed had a 2-3 shift with a fine line between jerk and slip, and at best it was rough since it was a double shift, front unit downshifted while the rear unit upshifted.

When they went to the dual coupling, since the front unit clutch was replaced with a controlled coupling the tuning became a little easier as a sprag clutch replaced the band in D4 or D depending on the car line so the downshift on the front unit simply involved dumping the controlled coupling while the rear unit did the band to clutch upshift.

In 1961 in an effort to simplify and reduce cost along with the need for a more compact transmission for the F85, GM came out with the Roto-Hydramatic, a 3 speed unit called a 3 speed 4 stage. First gear, first stage was a controlled coupling with a small stator that was connected to the output shaft. It provided a minimal torque converter effect, which was partially cancelled by the reaction force pushing the wrong way on the output shaft. First speed second stage was coupling acting as a clutch driving the gearset. Second gear was a purely mechanical through the gear train with no coupling or converter function as it was drained. Between that and the jump from first to second ratio (like skipping 1-3 in a 4 speed) that shift was extremely sensitive to TV linkage adjustment.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

Gsmblue
All good information.

From the videos it looks like I will broadly have the right parts to convert to the cable TV. It seems pretty straight forward to install and I like how it can be adjusted from the engine bay with only a wrench.

The current mechanical linkage that is in place now has NO adjustment.

Espy is parked up until the kit arrives.
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I'll have my  that there's no damage and the kit provides the needed adjustability.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

Gsmblue
Thank Gary.

I am going to set it up as per the videos I posted. The speed control will need an extra mounting bracket and I will need to find someone locally to help with that as it is probably outside of my skill set.
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

mat in tn
the old info of previous gm designs is interesting . i'm still studying power transfer systems. but i study one trans at a time as im building or modifying one. i generally focus on aod's as i like using them in f100 and f150 trucks. so much of the internal operation is not so adjustable yet relies on info from external points. not totally versed in all things transmission. just my own experience with building certain models. and the range of operation im referring to is on the external "communication" portion of the system.
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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

85lebaront2
Administrator
Mat, if you are interested in some of that, I have things I have dug up on a lot of transmissions. The real interesting ones are Mercedes-Benz units, all the ones I used to work on have reaction valves on the anchor end of the bands. These serve as hydraulic feedback to the valves applying or releasing the band and it's associated clutch. The idea is to provide a smooth, yet solid transfer from one holding device to another. To say the valve bodies on these are complex is an understatement.

The other end of this is the Detroit Gear 3 speed that Studebaker used and after the fire in the Hydra-Matic plant in 1953 Hudson used them also. Jaguar used them on the salons and XK 120,140, and 150 models. Valve body was extremely simple as the shifts were controlled by a flyweight governor that a throttle input changed the spring tension on. This moved a shift valve to control the original versions shift from intermediate to direct and on the later Jaguar models from low to intermediate to direct. There was a tiny plunger that received pressure in direct to provide the needed hysteresis to prevent hunting. I also believe Mercedes used it before developing their own units.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

mat in tn
i  am very interested in these. personally i dont learn well without an example to work on or a means of keeping in context. i guess i have struggled with that my whole life. if im researching a solution for a known condition or problem i find it far easier to comprehend and retain what i have learned. i guess its one of the things that keeps me challenging myself. i havent jumped into an e4od yet either. although i have been close. haha.
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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

Gsmblue
You guys have so much experience and knowledge. I want to host a symposium at my place for all of you with my trucks as the subjects!
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

mat in tn
me thinks thou may be working an angle
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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

BigBrother-84
In reply to this post by Gsmblue
Gsmblue wrote
You guys have so much experience and knowledge. I want to host a symposium at my place for all of you with my trucks as the subjects!
Geee, I think I would go assist to this symposium, guys, even just to learn what is a TV cable.
I suspect it’s not in order to watch Maynard G. Krebs episodes while driving.
Jeff / 1984 F-350 Crew Cab 4x4 5.8L/w351 4V 8' bed.
Completely restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's famous novel.
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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Work!  

And you do know what the “G” stood for, right?  Read to the bottom of this: https://dallaslibrary2.org/blogs/bookedSolid/2017/08/one-word-maynard-g-krebs/
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

85lebaront2
Administrator
In reply to this post by BigBrother-84
Well, first there are two different types of TV cable a pull style and a push style (sort of like the pushmepullyou from Dr. Dolittle).

The pull style is the more normal and can be either an external or internal connection at the transmission end. Manufacturers found that making numerous changes of direction to clear things got to be a pain. For years Chrysler Torqueflites had a system of three rods and two bellcranks to get from the carburetor to the throttle lever on the transmission. With the advent of FWD the throttle lever on the transmission was usually in a completely wrong position for a rod system so a nice cable, about the size of a bicycle brake cable was used.

GM went from a rod system on the older Hydramatics to a vacuum modulator and a solenoid for WOT downshifts, then in the late 70s, reversed that on the THM200 with a TV cable. Ford also went to vacuum modulators starting in 1961 but used a downshift lever that was actuated at WOT either by a rod or cable depending on vehicle and engine.

Borg-Warner on their automatics (Ford FMX is a Borg-Warner design) used a push cable on AMC products, pull cables on others, vacuum modulators with an integral solenoid for downshifts on others.

A TV cable, whether external or internal allows the engineer a lot more flexibility in design as the arc of the throttle motion and the arc of the transmission lever are all that is needed to match one to the other. My turbo Chrysler uses a drum style connection for the accelerator cable, but a slot for the TV cable, so if the TV cable jams in the extended position, it will not prevent the throttle from closing. The slot is arc shaped and positioned so the cable is not bent too much in it's travel. On the transmission end, it attaches to a lever on the TV shaft. This is what it looks like:
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

BigBrother-84
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Thanks Gary, interesting reading!
Although completely scatty… well, as the character was.
I would personally have vote for "Gilligan", instead of a silent G preceding Walter.
Maybe Wayne comes from a Dwayne who similarly decided that the D became silent.  Who knows.
Thanks to this mechanical-historical-cultural forum, we learn so much things!

Jeff / 1984 F-350 Crew Cab 4x4 5.8L/w351 4V 8' bed.
Completely restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's famous novel.
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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

BigBrother-84
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
Thanks Bill, you made my day!
Jeff / 1984 F-350 Crew Cab 4x4 5.8L/w351 4V 8' bed.
Completely restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's famous novel.
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Re: AOD with 351W and Edelbrock 1406 TV rod to TV cable fix?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by BigBrother-84
You can learn about TV things in several different guises: throttle valve and television. 😎
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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