AOD to 4r70w swap in an 86 Bronco

I figured I would detail everything in this post. I had been writing in the "WHYDTYTT" thread about some of this, but I thought it would be better to start a new topic.

I bought a 4r70w from Monster Transmission, and during install the bellhousing broke. Looks like there was an old crack on one side, and a big porosity in the casting on the other and while I was letting it down on the jack, it snagged on something and popped a piece of the bell housing off.

I'll start the thread with how my experience goes with Monster's warranty and service departments, and then move on to the actual technical stuff and parts lists when I can start installing again.

So far, my experience with Monster has been positive. Their lead time was greatly underestimated. I ordered my transmission on 10/5 and received it on 12/9 after being told it would arrive in the beginning of November. Despite that, they always kept me updated on the status of my order, and it's not hard to get in touch with a real person on the phone.

The warranty department opened a case quickly, and told me to expect a wait time of up to 72 hours to hear back from them about whether or not they will give me a new transmission. One of the questions they asked while opening the case was "did you install it yourself or did a shop do it?" so I am wondering if they will try to wriggle out of the warranty because I'm not a shop.

Monster transmission wants $600 to fix the thing because of some term in their warranty that excludes "hard parts." Also they want me to pay for freight to send it there, which is $680. So, for a Transmission I paid $2,800 for, that I never used, that broke when I got it, I will pay an additional $1300??? F*cking insane.

Ouch. That sucks.

Transmissions are one of those items that are kind of voodoo, and you're never sure who you should trust. I wonder if it wouldn't be cheaper to have a reputable local shop find you a new case and swap the internals for you. No doubt that would void Monster's warranty though.... rock, meet hard place.

Sorry for your troubles.

Wow. That is not good.

Can you get a case from a breakers?

Monster were on my list for an aod. Not so much now.

I was considering doing this, but they said it would void the warranty on the parts they actually DO cover. Since I haven't even used the transmission yet, I feel like that would be foolhardy. For anyone considering Monster, keep in mind that their warranty does NOT cover shipping it back to them for repairs, unless you paid $800 up front for the "premium warranty".

I did some thinking and some calling around and there is a reputable welder/fabrication shop near me that specializes in this stuff that will do weld it for $65 an hour. The owner told me that it won't be any weaker than the unbroken parts of the case. I'm going to spend my money here instead of sending $1300 to Monster and waiting a month to receive another possibly-bad case.

Here's an excerpt from their Warranty agreement:
Limited WOWanty DOES NOT cover any of the following:
1. Any and all freight costs including freight damage claims.
2. Fluid, rental cars, loss of wages, any labor costs not associated with a previous agreement made by Monster Transmission & Performance.
3. Removal/reinstall fees, towing costs, diagnostic fees and any other incidental costs or damages which may be associated with product failure are not covered.
4. Any product that has been physically altered, improperly installed or maintained.
5. Any product used in an improper application, abused or not used in connection with the proper parts.
6. Any product that is defective due to accident, neglect or unauthorized repair.
7. Any product where proper cooling and or fluid levels have not been maintained.
8. Pump, pump components, shafts, sprags, drums, planetaries and/or cases. These parts are not commonly broken, however in the event this occurs, MTP offers replacement parts at a discounted price.


Number 8 would mean that they have NO incentive to send you a good part for any of those components. In fact, they have an incentive to send out a certain number of bad components from that list to ensure that some customers send them even MORE money to get them repaired. Assuming that they are not actively doing that, they still can treat those parts with complete indifference during Quality Assurance and inspections stages of the build with nothing to lose and a little more money to gain.

I have seen them on a few YouTube channels and TV Shows over the past few years. I would imagine if one of those folks called them up with a problem, they would be happy to fix it for free, and fast.

I will say this for them, the one person I dealt with during the sales process did email me back just now and tell me that she will discuss it with her leadership team to see what they can do about the high price.

I'll keep you updated on what they come back with. I'm still getting it welded tomorrow. If Monster comes back and says they'll put a brand new case on it for free or something, I'll send the welded one back to them and get the new free case, but I doubt that will happen.

Give them a permalink to this thread.  They'll see the bad press they are getting and may want to rectify that.

From my point of view, I would not trust a welded case to be 100% true as far as alignment of the centerline of the shafts to the crank. It would need to be stripped and runout measured along with actual alignment to the extended centerline of the crank.

Pretty sure a weld would count as a modification

As in point 4 above

this is just a plain old unfortunate situation all the way around. as a person who has both offered and used warranties, I have to look at it from both sides. please be open minded about this situation. I value warranties and consider them heavily when getting another to do work or buying almost any item. but let's be gentlemen about the fact that "out of the control of the warrantor" is real. the fact that they will rectify this for a fee is working with the customer. shipping is also out of their control and if it came out of the container with even a noticeable blemish that would be a different issue.  it is just a bad situation plain and simple. I really hope the weld gets done well and warranty is not seriously needed.
it is apparent in the pics that it is a "seasoned case" to use a remanufacturers term. cleaned up built and painted. just as I do! I have also had one done the same way that once I got the truck, I noticed that the radial crack /break that had obviously happened in the bell housing had been welded up. and was done extremely well inside and out. but for the buildup for strength, I would not have even known.  

Gary, the lady there at Monster did at least say she'd run it up the chain, so I'm not going to threaten them with anything. I work for a company with strict policies, and I know what it's like to be the guy who has to "tap the sign." I also know that we make exceptions based on a customer's circumstances, and that's what I'm hoping they'll do here.

LEBaron, that was a concern of mine, especially because one of the alignment dowels is on the broken-off part. But this shop specializes in this stuff and said they could get it perfect. It's only $65 for the welding option, and if it does turn out to be out of alignment or something, I can always just send the whole thing to Monster and pay the big cost. And hopefully, the lady I talked to can get some knocked off the price and it won't be as exorbitant.

GSMBlue, It seems like if they don't cover damages to the case, they shouldn't gig me for fixing it. I just won't tell them I got it welded, and let the warranty claim expire. Then if something goes wrong that IS covered, I will just send it in and hope they don't notice LOL.

Mat, I do understand running a business and the bottom line, I know that some things are beyond control. When I build a piece of furniture for someone and they have a problem with it, I take it back and fix it free of charge. If one board on a table had a crack I didn't know about and it opened up, I'd fix it. If I shipped any of my work anywhere, I would see about at least sharing the cost of freight, since that's a big cost for anyone. And yeah, it's definitely a used case. I didn't expect a new one, really. It would be nice if they would just leave it bare instead of putting aluminum-colored paint on it, though. I feel like a crack that big might have BEEN a "visible blemish out of the box" if it weren't for the paint. Of course I'm upset that my very expensive component is now unusable. I also understand how it is when you have business to conduct. I guess my opinion on it is that if I paid them $2800 for one unit, everyone else is too, and if their products are as great as they say, then mine is among a very small number that need to be warranty'd. IF the number is indeed small, then eating only part of the cost of my purchase is not such a financial hit, and they'd make it back when I need my transfer case and my other Fords' transmissions done.

Your attitude is very civil and considerate.

It is always good to see people do the right thing and have the right attitude!

I like like your plan.

That's your call and I respect that.  But it isn't a threat.  It is a fact that their reputation is being discussed, openly and on a large forum that is open to anyone in the world.  I think it is fair that they know that.

That's a good point. It IS already being discussed.

Nickelplate wrote

GSMBlue, It seems like if they don't cover damages to the case, they shouldn't gig me for fixing it. I just won't tell them I got it welded, and let the warranty claim expire. Then if something goes wrong that IS covered, I will just send it in and hope they don't notice LOL.

I don't see how they couldn't notice, the weld scars are going to be very apparent. And then I fear they would deny your claim on that basis alone.

Are the welders going to remove the internals from the case? If so, warranty issue again. If not, I would be concerned about the pump and the forward gearpack and any bearings they have being exposed to the weld heat. You have to pump a huge amount of heat into what, quarter inch or thicker aluminum, to get a solid weld on it.

Not only is it being discussed at the moment, but unlike on Facebook the comments will be found when someone searches for anything that is in this thread.  In other words, these are effectively eternal statements that will impact their reputation.

this is absolutely the best way to advertise your willingness to work with a customer and gain respect in the customer service world. I'm sure they spend much more on marketing then a case will cost. and yes, an unhappy customer, with lots of friends can be a real lost opportunity. word spreads like wildfire these days. good and bad! that does not imply that anyone owes anything just that customer service is the real product.

Nickelplate wrote

So far, my experience with Monster has been positive. Their lead time was greatly underestimated. I ordered my transmission on 10/5 and received it on 12/9 after being told it would arrive in the beginning of November. Despite that, they always kept me updated on the status of my order, and it's not hard to get in touch with a real person on the phone.

Hey man, sorry to hear about the issue with the transmission. In defense of the greatly underestimated lead time, I will say that everybody is struggling with this right now. I deal with it every single day at work...apologizing for wildly incorrect lead times. It mostly has to do with sub components and receiving wildly incorrect lead times from suppliers. Things are better than they were a year ago, but they're still not perfect. We've had to re-word out T&C's because of this, and our lead times are "estimates only". It's a pain in the butt.

By the way, my brother in law has had two aluminum transmission cases welded up before and they went on to last several hundred thousand miles in service vehicles. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen them myself, but they did last. They were both front wheel drive transaxles too that has big holes in them lol. The shop that welded them up for us claimed to have repaired lots of them before.

Good luck with it!

Just an update:
The nice lady at Monster elevated the warranty case to the highest people in the process and I should hear back from them by midweek next week.

I got the current trans back from the welder yesterday and I am not satisfied with the work. He told me that the metal of my case was really hard to weld because it had some magnesium content to it, then proceeded to tell me a story about another magnesium-containing thing he had welded that fell apart right after he finished. He didn't preheat the metal so his work ended up causing more cracks. He fixed those, but did not end-drill them like you're supposed to do on cast materials to prevent it from spreading again due to the heat of the welding. He ended up getting a bunch of aluminum shavings on everything, including some getting inside, by going in around the seal that goes around the pump shaft for the torque converter. Also, I got home and measured it with a straight edge, and the broken off piece is not co-planar with the rest of the transmission. Big problem, since the broken part has the hole for one of the alignment dowels.

Worst-case scenario, I have to buy a whole new transmission. Anyone know any good, reputable companies I can look into for that? My local Ace Transmission quoted me like $6k for a new transmission and to install it. Yikes.

do your best to vacuum out any shavings. shop vac with as small of a tube as you can come up with. it does not sound as if then welder jig'd the bell housing before welding. this is such an important step.

You'd think that someone who claims to specialize it would have jigs for the common type. I dunno about where you all are, but here in my part of the US, it is SO hard to find someone who actually does things carefully and right. The reviews and pics on the weld shop's web presence looked really good. Oh well. I suppose it's all easy-street from here since nothing else can go wrong with this thing.