1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

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1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

Dale Barber
New member, first post.

I have a 1986 F350 with a 460 engine, dump truck.  Bought it about 15 years ago and it has 66K original miles on it.  I only put a couple hundred miles a year on it, quite a bit of it around our property and never more than 15 miles or so from home.

Last October the fuel pump gave out in it - in tank electric - and I replaced it with a new one.  Last Wednesday morning I went to use it and it would not start.  I'm a retried mechanical engineer who has been messing with cars and trucks for 60 years but sure am no expert on this setup.  But I do have the basic Ford shop manuals for the truck - and thank Gary for the EVTM and schematic in the forum as they were invaluable.

Engine runs fine with an 'alternate tank' - salvaged lawn mower tank.  Some previous owner did a major rework of things.  For one, the fuel vapor separator is missing and the return fuel line to the tank is plugged, not used.  The fuel pump cutoff relay is not used, just hanging by a couple wires.  The connector upstream from the relay has the male half missing and a jumper installed between the red/yellow line coming from the oil pressure sensor (if I've got things figured out correctly) and the pink line (with a black wire as well) that feeds the fuel pump.  It took me a while - and a bit of help from a buddy - to figure out the 'modifications' we had at hand.

With all those pieces missing I patched in a wire from an unused slot in the fuse block, put in an in line 8 amp fuse and got almost no fuel pumping.  So I'm suspicious that the pump is fried even though I can hear it running, or at least making noise.  I did not investigate the system at all last fall when I replaced the pump, as it had been running fine for years as is.  So I just replaced the bad part with a good one.

I'm in upstate NY, no AC in the truck and no long over the road usage.  If I was going to drive all the time I'd put the system back as original.  But after looking through the forum - what would be wrong in just putting a mechanical pump back on.  If I understand things correctly that is possible by just removing the block off plate.  Or perhaps an external electric pump - realizing it will not have all the safety parts with the relay, etc.  But it is a 36 year old truck seeing very limited use.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.  Much appreciated.

Dale
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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Dale - Welcome to the forum.  Glad you joined.  

But you may have missed the email I sent you asking you to post first in the New Members Start Here folder  to introduce yourself.  We do that because we have the guidelines posted there and want to make sure everyone has had a chance to read them because we hold everyone to them.  So, have you read them?

On the fuel situation, the reason the factory went with the electric pump and the vapor separator was due to the heat produced by the 460, which tended to cause vapor lock.  But that was a bigger problem on vehicles with A/C, so you would probably be fine with a mechanical pump in your usage.

But do you only have one tank?  Or only need one tank?  That will simplify things greatly.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

Dale Barber
Gary -

Sorry to have not 'entered' properly.  When I clicked the link I got right in and the email must have showed up while I was composing the post.  So I took a gander at the new members part, read the rules and now am back here.

Have to laugh as I stumbled over your introduction.  When I got out of the Army in 74 I hired into Big Blue - who eliminated the department that hired me before I showed up.  So their second mistake was making me a programmer which took me a few years to escape from.  I can relate to the IT comments - even though the last programming I did was for the then new B-52 offensive avionics system back in 79.  Doesn't help much with today's languages and such but heck, it is all ones an zeros.

Truck has only one tank.  I'm guessing that a mechanical pump should pull from the tank through the 'bad' pump with no problem.  If it was a Model A it would be easier - we'd just let gravity do the work.

Here are some pictures of the shape things were in when I found the relay and connector - brought fear to my old aerospace quality heart.  LOL

Dale





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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Dale - That happens, so if you've read the guidelines then we are good to go.  

Where's home?  We have a map (Bullnose Forum/Member's Map in the menu), and can add you with a city in upstate NY.

Big Blue?  I almost worked for them at one point, but worked on a whole bunch of their equipment.  And you are right, it is all ones and zeros.  But you have to know how to group them - in threes for octal or fours for hex.  (Had to use some of that knowledge recently to set a mask on my EEC-V system to turn off certain tests and to watch for certain flags.)

B-52?  I worked on the H while at Boeing.  For some reason they didn't like its tendency to shed the tail surface, so we put a strain gauge or two on one to find the problem.  I was on the ground accepting the telemetry and writing it to ... tape.  (Unlike the one that almost crashed, as described here, we thought it best to transmit the data back rather than writing it to tape on the plane since it might crash.)

Anyway, I see why you want to go with a mechanical system.  Yuk!  I wouldn't want to have to fix all that, so think dumping it for a simple mechanical pump is a good idea.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

Dale Barber
Gary -

Home is the middle of nowhere on the NY/PA border - Waverly, NY 14892.  Sure not a city!

Ah yes, mag tape - not to mention core memory and other such antiques like punch cards.  I remember the story on the H that lost the vertical stab.  What I worked on was the circa 1978/79 G/H upgrade to the AP-101C that I think got updated again in 2011?  After I retired in any event.  That was right after we did the D upgrade.  Good thing my one brother in law was no longer driving D/E/F models for the AF or he probably would have complained to me if the cpu burped.  We did a lot of work for Boeing in those days and onward.  By the time I retired we had been sold twice so I retired from Lockheed.

I've seen entries by others who claim to have mounted a mechanical pump, left the electric power out of the circuit and it worked fine.  To disable mine all I have to do is leave that jumper out and throw the connector back behind the inner fender.  Also the most economical solution I imagine.  Will just have to check and bake sure the cover plate is there and get a pump.  At least with the dump body life is a lot easier getting at the top of that blasted fuel tank.

Thanks for the help.

Dale
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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

85lebaront2
Administrator
Welcome our corner of the insane asylum. I have one of those 1986 originally with dual tanks and the hot fuel handling package. Yours being a dump truck was probably built as a cab and chassis. This only really enters into things like the rear axle. Pickup trucks in 1985/86 received Ford 10.25" axles, the cab and chassis models received Dana 60s.

The biggest issue there will be rear brakes, The Ford axles have removable (slide on) drums, on the Dana the hubs have to be disassembled in order to get the drums off.

Ford built all the 460s, even after EFI was introduced with a mechanical fuel pump eccentric and all carbureted models that I have seen have a block off plate where the pump mounts.

As far as working for defense contractors, I retired from Huntington-Ingalls Industries (final iteration of my employer). When I first went there in Dec 1966 it was Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Company. In 1969 we were acquired by Tenneco. I left in 1970, returned in 1982, it was still Tenneco. Tenneco decided to sell us to Northrop Grumman, but they weren't real sure what to do with us. They owned Ingalls Shipbuilding on the Gulf Coast and had several divisions one of which was Northrop Grumman Shipbuilding, the Ingalls yards. We became a complete division of our own. In Early 2011 they merged both shipbuilding divisions into one, and on April 1st 2011 we were spun off to become Huntington-Ingalls Industries (named for the founders of the two, Collis Huntington for Newport News and Robert Ingalls For Ingalls Shipbuilding. I retired effective 1 Dec 2011. We don't build things that fly, just portable landing fields (nuclear carriers) and submarines.

Gary and I have converted our Bullnoses to EFI, using the EEC-V computers, mass air control and sequential injection.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Dale Barber
Dale - You are now on the map.

And yes, I cut my teeth on IBM machines with core memory.  In fact, the first one didn't even know how to add and the first thing you had to do was to load the math tables into memory, without which you got strange answers.  Then DEC computers with core and hard drives with 4K of memory and paper tape.

Man, we've come a loooooong way.  I have a computer in my truck that is far more capable than the room-sized one we had at K-State with thousands of tubes.  Its MTBF seemed like only seconds.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

Dale Barber
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
Bill -

Story I got when I bought this was that is was a cab and chassis originally.  Strange part was original owner bought it to tow the family camper as well as do work - only time I've ever heard of that logic.  Does have removable drums as over the years I've replaces both rear wheel cylinders when they started leaking.  Only other repair was when the ignition module gave up the ghost.  Been a reliable truck pretty much but then I don't use it a lot either, sits way too much.

Understand your work evolution.  When IBM was in all that trouble in early 90s our division got sold as we were the only part of the company that made any money - and most people in the company did not even know we existed.  Loral owned us for about 3 years, then Lockheed Martin bought up most of Loral.  I always joked I should have framed the 3 business cards of the time - same address, title and phone number but with different corporate logos.

You guys are into some good work on your trucks while I'm just keeping a work vehicle a safe driver to haul things.

Dale
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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

Dale Barber
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gray -

Thanks for putting me 'on the map' - new experience for me.

We start dating ourselves - fall 1966 semester, my freshman year, FORTRAN on an IBM 1401 with card I/O and you had to load the three decks prior to your program.  We did not have anything sophisticated like a tape drive or other peripheral, just a printer.  Like you say different now - my phone has more horsepower and memory than machines from back then and even into the 70s.

Don't know how we made it to the moon with slide rules but we did.  Just glad the dump truck does not have a computer - enough fun fixing antiques without that added attraction.

Dale
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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Dale - In the words of Paul Simon " "Ain't we walking down the same street together on the very same day". In the fall of 1966 I was a freshman at Kansas State and we used a 1401 with punch cards.  I didn't use paper tape until 1970 when my employer, the local electrical company, purchased a Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition (SCADA) system that was driven by a DEC PDP-8L.

The "L" was very important as the "Straight 8" had no core and instructions were fetched from disk while the L had a little bit of core.  But in both systems disk latency was a big deal so you kept track of where the disk was in its rotation in order to minimize the fetch time.  And all of this was done in assembly language.

As for not having computers in these vehicles, that is a significant advantage in many ways.  However, that means you have a carb and as I'm aging (you might know about that as well) and want to hand my trucks off to my kids, that becomes problematic.  Neither kid can rebuild a carb, so I've decided to implement a system that can be more easily maintained - one that gives them an OBD-II port with a computer that will tell them what is ailing it.  And for a 460-powered truck that happened in 1996 and '7, but only in CA.  So that's what I'm running.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

85lebaront2
Administrator
In reply to this post by Dale Barber
Fall of 1964, my freshman year at what is now Old Dominion University, the school of engineering had an IBM 1620 in a room. Keypunch, card reader and printer. Yes, I too learned Fortran. I ended up dropping out after failing English Composition and Literature twice.

Since this was spring of 1965 and you basically had no idea if and when you might get that charming letter starting "Greetings", I decided that getting in some kind of reserve program might be a good idea. I ended up in the Marine Reserves and spent a total of 14 years, in two different times, 1965 to 1971 and 1975 to 1983.

I worked in automotive repair, ultimately buying a Carburetor and Ignition shop with my father. Long story, but he got somewhat conned into selling it to one of my employees and his dad. I worked at a dealership, transmission shop, and then a good friend hooked me up on going back to NNS in the laboratory where I had been a number of years earlier. Spent the next 30 years breaking things.

When I first went back into the lab at NNS, they were still storing data on IBM punch cards (this was 1982). I decided that discretion was the better part of valor and played dumb regarding the key punch machine etc. When the lab management decided to acquire a LIMS (Laboratory Information Management System) and we had a computer controlled Tinius-Olsen test machine, our computer guru, finally figured out I knew a lot more than I let on. As a result when we lost a bunch of data and fortunately had hard copies I ended up with full administrator control in LIMS and as our IT guy said "you have more access to this system than anyone other than me.". I guess he trusted me not to change things I shouldn't. I spent a couple of weeks helping sort the mess out, biggest issue was the gap in the lab numbers where the data was lost. the log in information had to be recreated, tests assigned and then the data from the hard copies entered, approver's initials assigned and then released to lock the data.

By the time I retired I had a personal NNS laptop so I could carry it when doing on-site calibrations and as the yard was standing up a WiFi network could actually complete and print the report and pick it up when I returned.

Keep in mind I dropped out of college, when I retired, my department manager stood in front of the group and said I was one of the two best non-degreed engineers he had ever met. I left them with several items I designed, a new water meter calibration weigh tank system that was accurate to 0.4% of indicated value, a digital torque wrench calibration system, a new control system for a hot tensile furnace, a big lifting and handling fixture for Dillon 100.000 lb dynomometers and an Instron test machine to replace the Tinius-Olsen. I wrote the specs and saw the purchase and installation through before retiring.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

jdavidsmi
Boy, you guys bring back some memories, 1969, USAF, my job was man hour tracking for Minuteman missile maintenance teams. If I remember correctly we use an IBM 360, it had a removable board that had to be rewired for each different report. My cubby hole was next to the commander’s office so I could share the AC for the card punch machine. The actual computer was in a separate building across base. It wasn’t long before someone got the idea to start tracking materials use for the different maintenance checklists.  
As with most data hungry organizations the job grew from a couple hours a day to full time. On to Vietnam and Thailand, back to paper. Early 80’s finally got a duel floppy drive IBM desktop, much easier. But by today s standard, I was rubbing two sticks together to make a fire.
Some where along this time my wife got herself a Vic 20. By the time I retired in 88, each desk in my office had a computer.
Now I set here with a tablet, with more computer power than I will ever need or use. And just a little jealous of what is coming.
Jan (my wife) asked me the other day, After reading an article about EMP’s, if our truck would start if that happened or could it be converted so it would. My answer was probably not, and I have no idea. But it’s an interesting question, something to ponder.
David,
1984 F150 LX, 4x4 117 wheel base, Engine Code "F" = 302, 5.0 2/B,
Transmission code "A" = 4sp manual New Process model 435
Axle code "19" = 3.55 (ford 8.8) manf.  08/1983, in Norfolk
DSO code "21" AtlantaFactory Air Conditioner, Dash with Gauges
1990 Goldwing 1500
1986 F150 XLT, short bed, 5.0 automatic
2004 F53 Fleetwood Terra motor home
2017 Chevrolet Traverse
Home town Viola Tennessee
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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

BigBrother-84
This post was updated on .
jdavidsmi wrote
Jan (my wife) asked me the other day, After reading an article about EMP’s, if our truck would start if that happened or could it be converted so it would. My answer was probably not, and I have no idea. But it’s an interesting question, something to ponder.
No matter about the facts, Hollywood decided that, yes, it will.  Post Apocalyptic movies often show old Ford trucks still running  through the mud and the rubble.




Jeff / 1984 F-350 Crew Cab 4x4 5.8L/w351 4V 8' bed.
Completely restored 2019-2021.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's famous novel.
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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by jdavidsmi
jdavidsmi wrote
Jan (my wife) asked me the other day, After reading an article about EMP’s, if our truck would start if that happened or could it be converted so it would. My answer was probably not, and I have no idea. But it’s an interesting question, something to ponder.
The answer is no, our trucks probably won't run if hit by a massive EMP.  It is expected that the DS-II or TFI ignition systems would be killed if the truck has a simple system, and the ECU would die if the truck had one of those.  Basically the theory is that the only way a truck would run is if it has a points-style ignition.

So get a distributor with points and a coil and you could make it run - until you run out of gas.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

grumpin
Gary Lewis wrote
jdavidsmi wrote
Jan (my wife) asked me the other day, After reading an article about EMP’s, if our truck would start if that happened or could it be converted so it would. My answer was probably not, and I have no idea. But it’s an interesting question, something to ponder.
The answer is no, our trucks probably won't run if hit by a massive EMP.  It is expected that the DS-II or TFI ignition systems would be killed if the truck has a simple system, and the ECU would die if the truck had one of those.  Basically the theory is that the only way a truck would run is if it has a points-style ignition.

So get a distributor with points and a coil and you could make it run - until you run out of gas.  
Interesting! I always thought the DS II wouldn’t be affected by an EMP.
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6 Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 Suburban LT K2500 454 4L80E
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
2000 Nissan Xterra XE 4WD 3.3 RE4R01A
Oregon
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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

Dale Barber
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
I guess I sent this thread down a heck of a rabbit hole that went from mechanical fuel pump to EMP survival.

Boeing story, back in late 70s.  Boeing had this idea on how to have computer system survive EMP event.  In our cast of software characters we had about any kind of crazy experience covered, except nobody that had actually done a space flight.  Full disclosure - I did two years Army active duty and had over 33 total when I finally hit mandatory retirement on reserve component side.  One of the other guys had flown KC-135 and AC-119 gunships in Nam.  Also nuke sub guy, diver, etc. etc.  So we had the schooling on radiation exposure, etc. etc.  The two of us  look at each other and tell the requester they are nuts - who cares if the machine survives if nobody is there to drive it?  We were told to shut up and just get to work solving the problem as requested.  So off we go.  Two days later we get the word to cease and desist, canceled without a reason.  We got a good laugh over that one.  EMP is a funny critter.  I always wondered how this test came out - test setup picture below.  Picture was front cover of Aviation Week same era.  No metal at all in the timber structure - as a Fort Belvoir Army combat engineer graduate I can really appreciate the design of that 'timber trestle bridge to nowhere'.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATLAS-I



Have to find time tomorrow to go get a mechanical fuel pump for the truck.

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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

BigBrother-84
Dale Barber wrote
I guess I sent this thread down a heck of a rabbit hole that went from mechanical fuel pump to EMP survival.
[…]
The two of us  look at each other and tell the requester they are nuts - who cares if the machine survives if nobody is there to drive it?


I love this forum ‘cause we feel free to have fun when discussing mechanical issue!

Dale Barber wrote
Have to find time tomorrow to go get a mechanical fuel pump for the truck.
I remember one day in a parking, with Big Brother refusing to start again… with two horses in the trailer.  Fast visit to Napa car parts, a new mechanical fuel pump in hands, couple of minutes under the truck, job done.
This was the easiest emergency repair I remember I ever done.
Since then, I LOVE mechanical fuel pumps.
Jeff / 1984 F-350 Crew Cab 4x4 5.8L/w351 4V 8' bed.
Completely restored 2019-2021.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's famous novel.
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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Dale Barber
That's a really interesting read!  Thanks!  I enjoyed that, and had never heard of it.

Was that thing actually right on the edge of Phoenix?  If so, wouldn't that pulse kill radio and TV for a couple of seconds?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

Dale Barber
Gary -

Location is very near the end of runway 26 at Albuquerque Airport/Kirtland AFB.  Google maps at https://www.google.com/maps/place/Albuquerque,+NM/@35.0540495,-106.5902989,10758m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x87220addd309837b:0xc0d3f8ceb8d9f6fd!8m2!3d35.0843859!4d-106.650422

Site is labeled ATLAS1 if you blow up the map, about a mile SE of the 26 runway threshold, E of the line of ammo bunkers.  You can easily see it is still there.  Good question as to how they mitigated any problems of disrupting normal world operations as the test site is really almost in downtown Albuquerque.  The alignment of the EMP shot would seem to be aimed right at the city.

If I can remember the next time I talk to my one surviving uncle in FL will ask if that was ever a problem.  His last Army assignment was at Sandia Base (which had been absorbed into Kirtland) and they retired there for many years as my grandmother was living with them at the time.  I used to stop once or twice a year to visit on business trips to the coast in the 80/90s. If you are ever there DOE has a VERY interesting museum there which my memory says was right on the edge of the base.  Good history of the Manhattan Project and since then.  They also did a lot of interesting but weird solar research stuff there as well.  That uncle has interesting stories - he was in a couple of the nuclear tests in Nevada right after the end of the Korean War where they popped nukes with units in the field. Like the tests the Navy did in the Pacific but not as well known in general.

Dale