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zf5 swap reasonable?

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Littlebeefy

zf5 swap reasonable?

Hey folks,

I just came across a zf5 transmission from a 92 F150 (4.9l) that has been rebuilt. I'm considering buying it for an eventual install and wanted input from those who know it much better than me. FYI I have Googled this a bit and I am finding an OVERWHELMING amount of info, but almost all of it applies to automatic to manual swaps, or later generations of trucks, so I don't know what will apply in my case.

Currently, I have an 84 Bronco with a 351W and a 4sp manual (E4TR). I love driving my truck but the gearing sucks, especially at highway speeds. I really want 5 speeds. Additionally, I have a non-original motor, so down the road I might consider dropping in a 460 instead of rebuilding the 351.

So, here are my questions:
Is there any reason that the zf5 from a 92 f150 with a 302 wouldn't mate up to my 351 in my 84?
Do I also have to change out the transfer case and clutch? What about the master cylinder?
Are there any differences in the zf5 transmission across the years?
If I ultimately replace the 351 with a 460, will the zf5 mate up to the 460 without issue?

Lastly, what do you think a freshly rebuilt zf5 transmission should cost (not installed)?

Best to you all,
Chad

LittleBeefy aka Chad

“Dot Doitall”: 1984 Bronco XLT
460 (C8VE), Edelbrock Pro-Flo 4, ZF5, NP205, D44HP solid axle, 4.56
urban assault vehicle

"Bebe": 2022 Bronco Badlands 2dr
2.7l, Sasquatch, Iconic Silver, Black Marine-grade interior, hard-top

"Celeste": 1979 Porsche 928
4.5l K-jet, 5-sp, S4/GTS brakes, LSD, Pasha interior

Gary Lewis

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Administrator

My answers, in bold:

Is there any reason that the zf5 from a 92 f150 with a 302 wouldn't mate up to my 351 in my 84?
It should bolt up just fine.

Do I also have to change out the transfer case and clutch? What about the master cylinder? I think the small-block ZF5 uses the same input shaft as your current transmission, so it should use the same clutch and master cylinder. And all the transfer cases swap right over.

Are there any differences in the zf5 transmission across the years? Maybe, but if it was truly rebuilt it should have any changes added. However there was the ZF5-42 and later the -47. They were supposedly capable of withstanding 420 and 470 lb-ft respectively. The '92 should have the -42, which is what I have in Big Blue, so I think you'll be fine.

If I ultimately replace the 351 with a 460, will the zf5 mate up to the 460 without issue? No. The two engine series have very different bolt patterns for the transmissions. A 460 takes the "big block" pattern.

Lastly, what do you think a freshly rebuilt zf5 transmission should cost (not installed)? I paid $500 several years ago for a ZF5-42, BW-1356 transmission case, shifter, etc. But it had problems and I had it rebuilt by a professional, but he was moonlighting, for ~$1000. But ZF's require several specific tools, and take someone that knows what they are doing to rebuild them well. So unless a pro built it I'd be concerned. Midwest Transmission is where I got the parts for mine and they seem to know what they are doing. And they offer a rebuilt small-block transmission for $1367. But I don't know if that requires a core. And it is probably plus shipping.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Littlebeefy

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Thanks Gary. As usual, a wealth of info.

I'm still confused about something. I'm seeing zf5 transmissions listed as coming along with 7.3l engines. Is this a different zf5 or does it have a different bellhousing, for example? Here's a CL ad that shows what I mean:

https://roanoke.craigslist.org/wan/d/pearisburg-zf5/7133772348.html

Thanks as always for your help.

1986F150Six

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Administrator

Would a 1992 F150 with 4.9L originally have a ZF? Or, would it have been the Mazda 5 speed?

Rembrant

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

In reply to this post by Littlebeefy

Littlebeefy wrote

Is there any reason that the zf5 from a 92 f150 with a 302 wouldn't mate up to my 351 in my 84?

Are you sure it's a ZF5 transmission? A 1992 F150 with a 302 would have had the lighter duty M5OD-R2 transmission...used in half tons and light duty 3/4 tons.

Although there has been talk/comments that the ZF5 was offered in F150's, I have never actually seen one, nor has anyone else that I know of.

Just want to make sure that you have the right transmission is all.

And yes if you have a hydraulic clutch now you can re-use your existing Bullnose master cylinder and simply buy the 1992 version of the hydraulic line and slave cylinder.

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

1986F150Six

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Administrator

Hmmm, Cory... look at our post times. Great minds thinking alike?

Rembrant

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

1986F150Six wrote

Hmmm, Cory... look at our post times. Great minds thinking alike?

Gary Lewis

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Littlebeefy

The guys are right - make SURE it is a ZF. Not saying the other isn't a good transmission, but just want you to not be surprised.

As for the 7.3L diesel, the 460's and small-block Zf's had a wide-ratio gear set and the diesels, both 6.9 and 7.3, had a close-ratio set.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Littlebeefy

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

In reply to this post by Rembrant

Hi guys,
The short answer is, "I don't know."

The long answer is, it's being parted out and the transmission is also available. I assumed it was original to the vehicle and rebuilt, but it may be from another vehicle and rebuilt.

Gary Lewis

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Administrator

The guys are saying that if it is original to the vehicle it should not be a ZF5.

And yes, there is a big difference between a ZF5 for a small-block and a 460. Besides the fact that the input shafts are completely different sizes, the small-block one won't bolt to the 460 nor vice versa.

What you may be missing is that these transmissions include the bell housing. It is all one case.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rembrant

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

The guys are right - make SURE it is a ZF. Not saying the other isn't a good transmission, but just want you to not be surprised.

Ya, make sure it is actually a ZF5 if what he wants is a ZF5.

The M5OD-R2 is the standard 5spd trans used in F150's and Bronco's from 1987-1996, and it was also used in pickups after that as well. It is a good transmission and Ford pumped out millions of 'em over the years, but one key point in his situation is that Ford never did offer that transmission behind a 351w. It was basically a 300/6 and 302 transmission. I quite like how mine shifts. There is no doubt that is IS a truck transmission...it shifts like a truck, but it IS a half-ton transmission.

The M5OD-R2 did come in the F250 as long as it was under 8500gvwr (I think that was the rating). Mine came out of a 1991 F250 2wd with a 302.

Littlebeefy

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Got it and got it. Will definitely check the stamping.

With regards to the SB version, is there a difference between 4wd and 2wd?

Gary Lewis

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Administrator

Yes. All of the transmissions have two versions - 2wd and 4wd. The former have a tailshaft housing that goes way back and has a rear seal, bearing, etc. But the 4wd vs has a place on which to bolt the t-case and a splined output shaft that engages the t-case. And you can't just unbolt the tailshaft housing from the 2wd and bolt a t-case on.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rembrant

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Gary,

What is the quick and dirty way to ID a ZF5 from under a truck? Does it have access covers for PTO, etc?

Littlebeefy

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Great. Thanks for clarifying, Gary.

I know I need the cross-member and shifter. Do I also need the transmission tunnel from the truck? I don't mind buying a new clutch, but is there anything else that I should get from the donor to make it easier (like wiring)? Like I said most of the articles I've found online have to do with auto to manual swap, so I can't really use that as reference.

Thanks

Gary Lewis

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Administrator

Cory - Yes, a ZF5 has PTO covers, as shown here in the oval. Note that the tranny in the pic is either for a 460 or a diesel as it has the boss for the clutch slave, pointed to by the arrow. Small-block ZF5's have a slave that is concentric to the input shaft and there's no boss for the slave on the outside.

Chad - You will need the taller cover from the other truck if the tranny is a ZF5 as the lower cover won't clear. And it would be good to get the crossmember and the associated gussets. If you use your existing crossmember it will need to be moved to the rear about 1", and while drilling new holes in the bottom of the frame for the crossmember itself isn't all that hard, drilling them in the top of the frame is a huge pain. But the ZF crossmember should make it a lot easier.

On the wiring, I think the ZF uses the same backup light connector as the other transmissions. At least the connector on Big Blue seemed to work.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rembrant

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Gary,

Would it be wise to grab the driveshafts from the donor truck as well?

Gary Lewis

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Administrator

Yes, it sure would. The existing shaft might work, but the one with the ZF is more likely to do so.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Littlebeefy

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

He sent me this pic, but I'm going to go down there in person tomorrow and take a closer look. This looks like a SB ZF5 4x4 to me. No boss, right?

Gary Lewis

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Administrator

Yes, that's a small-block ZF5. And it is a 4wd version.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

zf5 swap reasonable?

zf5 swap reasonable?

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Is there any reason that the zf5 from a 92 f150 with a 302 wouldn't mate up to my 351 in my 84? It should bolt up just fine.

Do I also have to change out the transfer case and clutch? What about the master cylinder? I think the small-block ZF5 uses the same input shaft as your current transmission, so it should use the same clutch and master cylinder. And all the transfer cases swap right over.

If I ultimately replace the 351 with a 460, will the zf5 mate up to the 460 without issue? No. The two engine series have very different bolt patterns for the transmissions. A 460 takes the "big block" pattern.

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Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Re: zf5 swap reasonable?

Is there any reason that the zf5 from a 92 f150 with a 302 wouldn't mate up to my 351 in my 84?
It should bolt up just fine.