Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

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Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Dyn Blin
While Gary's sorely missed shindig was going on last week, I was taking my oldest girl up to school in the truck.  Ride-wise, it was an uneventful ~1200 mile trip, and even a bit better on gas mileage than I expected despite spinning at almost 3k at 70MPH- Next month's trip to MT will hopefully be better with the 32" tires I plan on mounting before then.  It was a bit warmer than expected:  I discovered why and will detail in another post.

To the question:

I keep a spare blue-brushing ignition module from the local yard in the tool box behind the seat, thinking if I have a failure, I can swap it and have it running until I can buy a brown-brushing module I *thought* I had.

When I was looking over the engine when I got home, I noted I had 2 strain-relief brushings and 3 connectors coming from the box.  Curious, I wiped the crud off the brushings, I noted they were, in fact, yellow.

From what I've found across the forums and a couple print references I have, the yellow brushing boxes were of 2 flavors- either with a lead for altitude compensation and/or 2-step timing retard  - is this correct?

If so, any advice on how I figure out which one I have?  I figure I can disconnect and look at the timing at start up, and alternatively follow the lead to whatever sensor might signal barometric pressure.  Any other ideas?  The local Napa guys were stumped when I visited earlier this morning, indicating my CA '82 shouldn't have a yellow at all on a 351W.

Last- would there be any issue swapping a blue-brushing box in it's place short or long term?

Thanks in advance.  I feel a little silly not knowing what was in there.  With so many other projects going since I picked the truck up last year, I haven't spent enough  time looking at what's working.
Sonoma County,CA
1982 F150 Flareside XLS
NP435 4x4
351W Motorcraft 2150

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I'm pretty sure you can't swap in a box with a blue grommet and get it to run.  As I tried to show here (Electrical/Ignition) the box with a yellow grommet is a computer-controlled unit, and the one with a blue grommet has no computer.  To convert to the blue box you'd have to disable the computer, and then it probably wouldn't pass CA inspections.

As for finding out what you have, it should have 3 plugs.  And, as my page says, one of those should have either 2 or 3 wires to it.  But, in looking at the 1981 EVTM I don't see a module with 3 plugs.  Do you happen to have the 1982 EVTM?  If so, maybe we can figure this out.

Or, perhaps your module has a number on it that will match up to one on the Ignition page?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

85lebaront2
Administrator
If you look at the EEC pinouts table (which I can never find on here when I want to), the 5.8L came with EEC-III through 1983, probably mostly CA spec. If it did, then you will have a crank sensor and a "locked" distributor with no pickup coil. If you do, you probably also have a feedback carburetor, probably a Motorcraft 7200 VV one which would also explain the pretty good gas mileage, working right they are amazing. I ran a non-feedback one on a 1957 Thunderbird Special 312 in a 1958 F100, with a Borg Warner T85 with OD and a 3.70 rear, 25 mpg highway.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill - I agree about finding the pin-out spreadsheet.  It easily took me 10 minutes to find it, and I'm the one that put it there!  

It currently is in Fuel Systems/Carburetors, Chokes, & EFI/EFI, and on the Pinouts tab.  But, where do you think it should be?  Or, maybe better, where ALL do you think links to it should be?  We can put it one place and point to it from several others.

Now to Mark/Dyn's truck.  If we can find the calibration code we might figure out a few more things about it, including the distributor, carb, and EEC #'s.  I've included a calibration parts list for one 1982 truck that might be it.  But it probably is a CA-spec truck and, if so, this won't be the right one.

Anyway, maybe Mark can see if the carb, distributor, or EEC unit under the seat have #'s on them?


Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

85lebaront2
Administrator
First, the EEC-III pinouts show two items (a) CKP sensor on pins #2 (GY)and #18 (DB) and and (b) a spark control on pin #17 this an orange with yellow hash. I would assume this probably goes to the yellow grommet DuraSpark box.

Second, it could go maybe under an "engine controls" tab as it covers more than just EFI.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Dyn Blin
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
We're on the same wavelength, Gary.  I just used up the last of the usable daylight removing the ignition control module and comparing it to the '82 EVTM.

Here are some pics:  

#1 shows the ICM as placed on the fender- 3 plugs, with one going to a module on on a bracket towards the firewall.

ICM On Fender

#2 shows the underside- *one* yellow brushing with 8 wires divided into 3 leads.  One lead attached to the module mentioned above.

ICM Underside

#3 shows the detail of the wiring colors:  Yellow & Black/White stripe go to the module mentioned in #1.  Red & White go to the 2 prong connector.  The Purple, Orange, Black (Maybe Black w/ Dark Green stripe- more on that below)  and Green go to the 4 prong connector.

ICM Wire Detail

#4 -Made in USA stamp (no other numbers with the exception of the inspection stamp on the potting on the underside)

Made in USA

The '82 EVTM shows 2 versions.  One for CA 302 and 351's (my door sticker codes to Mipitas/San Jose and originally came from the line with a 302) that reflects as "EEC", and another that reflects "Duraspark".

It does not appear to match the (CA 302/351) EEC version- the EVTM shows 5 wires coming from the ICM into 2 connectors:  One with 2 wires (Red & White) and one with 3 wires (Orange, Dark Green & Black w/Light Green stripe)

It almost matches the Duraspark version- one connector with 2 wires (Red & White), and one with 4 wires (Orange, Purple, Dark Green and Black w/Light Green).  However, there's no reference in the EVTM for the "extra" 2 wires (Yellow and Black w/ White stripe) going to the module on the bracket.

The module on the bracket could well be some type of ambient air pressure sensor- it has a pinhole opening opposite of the potted wires.  (Edit- I'm thinking it may be the sensor listed as the last item on the paste you made above, Gary)

I presume when the engine was swapped a Duraspark and appropriate harness were swapped with it.  The rest of the emissions package is intact (I had to rebuild it after buying the car using the diagram on the radiator vacuum routing sticker, so that too may have been swapped).  

I also noted the wiring from the engine side has quite a bit of cracked insulation at the connectors.  I'm thinking I'm going to have to swap connectors (I have enough Weatherpacks around to do the whole engine, and I can find the connectors from your catalogue on the site) but before that, I'll triage with some Permatex liquid electrical tape.

In any case the reference you have on the link seems to best match the E1AZ-12A199-A (given the description of "Yellow with 2-wire 3rd plug").

What I didn't check was to see if the Blue box plugs even matched the 2  connectors on the engine side, even if only for curiosity sake.  I'll head back down to Napa with the part number above to see if they can find it.

Bill, The truck came with a 2150 Carb.  I have a 7200 VV in the garage I took from the yard because I was curious to learn about it after hearing it works well across the RPM range when adjusted correctly.  No plans yet to install it, though.
Sonoma County,CA
1982 F150 Flareside XLS
NP435 4x4
351W Motorcraft 2150

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

85lebaront2
Administrator
Ok, then the question goes back to distributor, is your distributor a normal DS-II one, three wire pigtail with a weatherproof PITA to unplug connector? If it is, is it connected to anything or just dangling on the engine?

Other question, is there a computer under the driver's side of the seat?

Last item, could you scan your 1982 EVTM or send it to Gary so he can scan it to his OCR files and then add it to the site's information files? That would be appreciated by all.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Ebay availability of single grommet yellow ignition modules [after market]

1986F150Six
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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
Last thing first - please compare your '82 EVTM to my '81 EVTM, and especially on the Start/Ignition pages and probably the Feedback Carb MCU and the Feedback Carb ECU sections.  If there are notable differences then I'd really like to get a scan of yours to capture those differences.

I have 1980, '81, '84, '85, & '86 EVTM's, but only the '81 and '86 on the website.  So I'm missing 1982 & 3.  You said your '82 only has Duraspark (blue grommet) and EEC, which is what the '81 has, and that EEC doesn't match your module.  And the '84 only has Duraspark and TFI, and yours certainly isn't TFI.  But I wonder if '83 EVTM has an evolution of the EEC that might match your module?  Perhaps your engine and ignition system are from an '83?   Hmmm, we need to find one of those EVTM's, and with it and yours we'd have the whole Bullnose era covered.  (And I'd have a LOT of work to do to get all of that on the website.  )

And I agree that the module on the back is the pressure sensor.  But did it not have a hose to the intake manifold?  If not, then it can't be a manifold pressure sensor.  Just barometric.  Does it have any numbers on it?

The plot thickens.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Ok, with David's help I've ordered an '82 and an '83 EVTM.  The intent was to find an '83, but he found an '82 for a price that made it seem silly to have Mark ship his and then I'd have to ship it back.

So, when they get in I'll be able to compare the various ignition systems.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Dyn Blin
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
First, thanks to all for the effort for this little yellow unicorn hunt.

Bill, yes, my distributor has the counter-intuitive "push/pull" 3-prong connector from/to the ICM.  It may also be on the Weatherpack conversion list, although those are only slightly less cumbersome to disconnect.  

I see Gary has already bird-dogged an '82 EVTM, but I'm happy to post images if anyone needs it before it's memorialized on the site.  Don't hesitate to let me know what's needed.

To the computer (Ford calls it the ECA/Electronic Control Assembly in the EVTM) location, I haven't pulled the seat and carpet up to check, but I can't locate any wire trails from the firewall to either passenger or driver location.  The EVTM seems to indicate for the  CA-only 5.0 and 5.8l EEC versions, the ECA should be under the passenger side, but I only recall seen them under the driver (or rarely on the firewall) in the yards, although was never on my radar even during the Great Gary Harness Hunt.    Would an older DSII have a ECA as part of the system, or was the ECA a post-1981 model year item?

What we presume is the barometric sensor does have a tiny Ford sticker still attached, but no other numbers under the patina.  I'm having trouble finding a matching image, and the part number I thought matched the description in Gary's paste seems to reflect the dual atmospheric/manifold sensor.  I haven't been able to spend a good amount of time looking, yet, however. (Edit- Gary- no attachment or lead for anything but the 2 prong connector to the ICM.   It has 2 potted wires into the little cylinder with a single small hole at the ridge on the same side)

Everything points to a replacement with a non-manufactured year implementation, which serves me just fine as it runs very well.  (hopefully the CARB board isn't reading this).

This is all good work to help me find replacement parts when needed, and hopefully helps others that may come late with this seemingly less common ICM.
Sonoma County,CA
1982 F150 Flareside XLS
NP435 4x4
351W Motorcraft 2150

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

85lebaront2
Administrator
Mark, on the connectors, I have a pretty comprehensive assortment of the later weatherproof connectors in 2, 3, 4, 8, 16, 42, and even the monster 76 pin the 1992-96/7 trucks used along with some of the round bulkhead connectors used 1987-1991. Let me know if you need any, on the 8 pin, I have several colors.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Dyn Blin
On the ‘82 I had the wires to the computer run down the engine, then under the cab, and into the cab directly under the driver’s seat. Later years had the computer under the dash.

DS-II systems, meaning those with a blue grommet, don’t have computers.  And the use of DS-II vs EEC varied by year, engine, and whether CA or 49-state spec.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Dyn Blin
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
Great to know Bill, thank you for the offer.  I may well take you up on that.  For now, I've got the liquid tape applied as a triage.  I've been meaning to take an inventory of what needs replacement, & the time spent cleaning the 8 connectors so far of accumulated crud and seeing the condition of some of the wire insulation makes it a priority for the rest of the harness.

Gary, that makes sense, less friction from contact than it would see under the carpet.  I'll get under this evening to take a look.  If not, I'll pull the carpet this weekend.  I need to start prepping for the fall project of insulating the cab and new carpet anyway, and it'll start with a layer of MasterSeries Silver.   This would as good as reason as any to get started.

David, thanks for the links.  I try to shop local, but sometimes eBay is the solution when the Napa guys scratch their heads; it's appreciated (and ordered).
Sonoma County,CA
1982 F150 Flareside XLS
NP435 4x4
351W Motorcraft 2150

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Dyn Blin
In reply to this post by Dyn Blin
Another loop closing post:

In close proximity there's a shop with a specialty in 70's and 80's emissions vehicles with an additional benefit of maintaining the current strictest agent tier for state emissions testing.  They were a wealth of information in getting my truck back into compliance after the PO stripped it of compliance equipment.

They immediately recognized the 3rd plug and barometric sensor connected to the DS II module, and related any similar year for other models will swap and function.  Ideally the "new" module will have a 2 prong connector.  However, he mentioned that other connectors exist on later years, but that as long as the sensor has 2 wires, they can be modified for a compatible connector and swapped without issue.   He mentioned that for model years after '82 (>E2 prefix parts) the module's resistance outputs have additional signals within the same overall altitude range, but the DS II module will interpret & function similarly.

With the above information, I ordered a similar sensor for an '82 Thunderbird, and have been running it for a few weeks as a test, and seen/heard/felt no issues, including a 2 runs over Tahoe passes from my almost sea-level driveway.

Given the small sample of 80's CA Bullnose trucks that that use this Duraspark II Yellow grommet/brushing 3-connector module variant, no one else on the board may need the info, but maybe recording the swap flexibility will help some future searcher.

The 82' Thunderbird part (looks the same as the 2 wire sensor attached to the "3rd" DS II plug in the pics above):

82 Thunderbird Barometric Pressure Sensor

Sonoma County,CA
1982 F150 Flareside XLS
NP435 4x4
351W Motorcraft 2150

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Mark/Dyn - Thanks for closing the loop.  And, glad it is working.  However, I'd like to get just a bit more info for documentation purposes.

Did we ever figure out what your calibration code is?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Dyn Blin
This post was updated on .
No, Gary, I did not.  It's been a source of consternation.

Based on the build date, it likely should have had a calibration decal affixed with a bar code.  Even if it didn't make the threshold of the sticker-style change, there's also no "early" '82 code label to cross reference with the Emission Decal (which is still there, but not quite accurate per the next note)

The truck came with a 302 from the factory (and the Emissions and Door Labels are consistent for a 302), but it had a 351W when I acquired it.  I used the emissions label to put the emissions equipment back on and it passed the engine visual and tailpipe sniffer.  The tech ignored the fact the engine was a 351 (although I'd bet a ham sandwich he noticed based on some later commentary).

Unrelated to the engine match, we both had a copy of the '82 Ford Car & Truck Engine/Emissions Facts Book Summary, and could not find an exact match to the emissions label.  We did find a very close match to the book's representation of the 302 "high altitude" 49-state engine/manual transmission/no A/C variant, and it differed by only the max dashpot clearance and a vacuum restrictor in the  diagram.

I'll post back when I pull the carpet and let you know what I find under the seat, but I'd welcome any more input on possible outcome in the meantime. Let me know if you want other information.

edit- one more anecdotal data-point: He and another emissions-tech mentioned a number of the Milpitas line trucks went to sell in Reno/Tahoe/Carson City areas.  This might make sense given the emissions label doesn't reference a CA restriction, and my '82 EVTM with the EEC page notes on "CA-only" 302's don't match my wiring (I have no infernal-inferred mileage sensor).
Sonoma County,CA
1982 F150 Flareside XLS
NP435 4x4
351W Motorcraft 2150

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Gary Lewis
Administrator
What is the DSO code on the certification label?  That will tell us where it was sold.

And tomorrow I'll see if I can figure something more out.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Dyn Blin
72/San Jose.

I've seen Mustang and Bronco Marti histories that went to dealerships 300 miles away for the original sale.  Maybe it's time for me to pony up for one.

(see what I did there?)
Sonoma County,CA
1982 F150 Flareside XLS
NP435 4x4
351W Motorcraft 2150

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Re: Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, I twigged.  (Today I sent an email to our preacher and in it I used "no joy" and "adverts" in it.  He, also, used to live in England.  I like to use what few Briticisms I know where and when I can.)  

Ok, it was sold in San Jose, so probably had the full CA-spec emissions system on it.  I'll see what I can find.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI