Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum

Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Classic

List

Threaded

83 messages Options

12345

Bruno2

Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Somewhere in the mid 80's the Ford Ranger (little Ranger not big Ranger) used a vacuum controlled heater core shut off valve that was actuated whenever the AC was set to max. I am assuming it is supplied by a split going to the damper door that shuts with vacuum whenever the AC control is set to max.

What year trucks used this valve?

Where is the vacuum line on our trucks that operates the damper door? Is it color coded?

Whitey: 1996 F 250 XL CCLB 4X4 7.3 DI ZF5 (The Work Horse) Lots of power mods
Whitey Jr: AKA Jr 1982 F 150 CCLB 4X4 351W C6 (Jr Work Horse) respectable power, but not over the top
The Bronco: 1987 Bronco XLT 351W C6 (needs work) Lots of off road mods and plenty of power mods
The Dodge: 2006 Ram 2500 CCSB 4X4 5.9 HO Cummins (The reliable ride that cant keep an AC in itself) (5th AC go around almost complete)

Gary Lewis

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Administrator

I'll look through the catalog, but it will take some time to track it down.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Administrator

Chrysler used a similar one and my son had a failed on on one of the delivery trucks at AutoZone when he was commercial manger They had no listing, Ford wanted around $75 for it, he grabbed a Chrysler one out of stock, it sat upside down but worked and fit perfectly. The K-cars used one with the lines essentially straight across, bypassed the coolant when off for manifold heat on the 2.2/2.5L engines. Mounted close it would give instant heat when opened.

White or black/white should be recirc door close.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Administrator

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by Bruno2

I've found lots of references to F87Z-18495-AA, which is also said to be Ready-Aire by Transpro 4-Seasons #74809. Here's a link to Air Conditioning Mod - Ranger Shutoff Valve where they talk about that valve and have pictures thereof, but it is a 4-port valve that recirculates water to the engine.

Since Ford rarely changes the basic part number I then turned to the 1980 - 89 parts catalog looking at "18495". Turns out that they had a valve for the Ranger (R) in the 80's:

Searching for YG-264 got me the following picture here, although it is said to be E4TZ 18495-A:

EDIT: THIS VALVE WILL NOT WORK AS VACUUM OPENS IT!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

grumpin

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

In reply to this post by Bruno2

I used a NAPA as shown in the link.

Equivalent to a Motorcraft YG350.

Hooked in the Max A/C vacuum line on my Bronco. I might put one on the F250.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_6601294

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Gary Lewis

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Administrator

The problem we have is that we would like the valve to work in both Vent and Max A/C. Unfortunately our control doesn’t give a vacuum signal for both of those situations and not others, as shown by a table from the 1981 shop manual, below.

My plan is to use connection #1 on the HVAC control, which isn't used. As shown below it provides vacuum on both Vent and Max, but not on Norm. The plastic on the control isn't drilled, and there's no hose on that port of the connector, but I think that should be easy to fix However, that is for a 1980/84 control, and I haven’t looked at a 1985/86 control to see if that is possible with them.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Administrator

Gary, if you could do like the 1973-79 trucks did, there was a small plunger type valve on the temperature lever, actually 2 if I remember correctly. on full cold in A/C mode, it operated the recirc actuator and shut off the water flow, the second one on the early models put the water in a half flow mode. It worked very well considering on mine the case and the 390 seemed like they wanted to mate with each other.

If you used one of those valves, you could use the recirc to shut it off, and the panel vacuum to put it in half flow, another thought, use a 3 port solenoid vacuum valve to keep the water flow off in panel but enable it if the compressor circuit is live in A/C norm mode for temperature control. A microswitch on the temperature lever could keep the vacuum on to the water valve in full cold position.

FWIW, the later system does not seem to have a problem with cooling even after a hot soak with a 460.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Administrator

Bill - I think I follow your logic, but that looks like a lot of work and fabrication. And if my idea of drilling the unused #1 port works I think it would be a lot easier.

Ok, maybe it is time for an aside on the huck-parting party and see if my idea works. I’ll have a few minutes this afternoon between church activities to see how hard it would be, and maybe even attempt it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

grumpin

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

I see. I have a electrically operated vacuum switch on standby, in case I wanted to go that route.

Then I could actuate it anytime I wanted.

I think the F250 is much better as lebaron said (I think), cools really well. I was assuming the "bigger" tubed A/C works better.

If drilling that control will work, that is cool!

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Gary Lewis

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Administrator

Ok, I think I have the answer: The 1980-84 Integral A/C controls can easily be adapted to provide vacuum to a valve in Vent and in A/C Max. But the 1985-86 Integral A/C controls cannot. However, the earlier controls may be able to be used in the later trucks. Read on....

I'm going to show you why and how, below, but want to write it up for the website and need your guidance on how/where to do that. My thinking is to put a tab called something like Improvements on the HVAC/Integral A/C page, and then show the info below on that tab. Plus, I'll place a link in the Resources folder here on the forum to that page so people can more easily find it. Thoughts?

As for why and how the 1980-84 controls can be modified to control a valve, here's the table from the 1981 shop manual again. Notice that the vacuum source is port 7, and that port 1 isn't used. However, it has vacuum to it in both the Vent and A/C Max positions, but none other, which is perfect for controlling a valve closing off the flow of hot water to the heater core as we would have no heat in Vent or A/C Max, but heat in all the other positions.

And here are the ports on the switch, with port 1 being open.

But, here's the connector for the vacuum harness, and you can see that port 1 doesn't have a hose on it. In fact, it is blanked off.

Here's a side view of that connector and you can see that there's plenty of room to drill the connector and insert a piece of either hard plastic tubing or a piece of brass tubing, onto which you can slip a vacuum hose.

But, why can't that be done on the 1985-86 Integral A/C controls? That's because the two unused ports, #'s 5 & 6, are not connected to vacuum in Vent and A/C Max. They are only connected to each other, and that doesn't help. So, what can be done? Change out the 1985-86 control w/a 1980-84 control. But that will also mean you'll need the 1980-84 vacuum harness and will have to change the pinout on the blower switch connector. And, that won't work with a 1985-86 truck with electric fuel pumps and dual tanks as the tank switch is much more complex than the earlier switch. However, I'll check to see if that switch can be swapped, which would solve the problem.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FuzzFace2

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Bill, Do you have both control panels & vacuum switch parts?
I can tell you the later switch does use 2 screws to hold it to the panel.

I do have some pictures of the panel/switch but not one from the bottom showing the screws but do have 1 from the top.

1 screw is at the end of the black rectangle housing, to the center of the control.
the other screw is to the right (back side) the other end of the rectangle housing.

I just can not tell from your picture & drawing if they will swap panel years or not?
I can get other pictures if you want.
Dave ----

Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100

85lebaront2

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Administrator

Dave, if I have the 85/86 control head, it is still in Newport News in my old dash. I didn't bring that over as I really have no need or really use for it.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Bruno2

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

In reply to this post by Bruno2

Nice work gentlemen!

Some of the forums I used to be on had a section called DIY Mods (Do It Yourself Modifications). This would be where all custom upgrades were done or a home cooked version of some kit aftermarket vendors would sell. Saves a lot of time and money for the guys not scared to jump in.

This is where I am butting heads with the vendors on the FB pages. They are squash conversations like this so they can sell a kit with parts to do a mod at 3X the cost of what it would be if guys knew what parts to buy as well as where to acquire them. IMO this is what these types of pages are for and not a place where all of these vendors can fleece the members.

Gary Lewis

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Administrator

You will notice there are no vendors here. Nor fees. Nor advertising, at least not "commercially". However, if we start up cottage industries around these trucks then there might be some advertising in a sense. For instance, if Reamer comes up with a tail light bracket for the Flaresides we might create a folder for things like that.

As for Facebook, I use it to keep up with people. But I don't see the value in it for things like we do here. It just doesn't lend itself to this.

Anyway, are you suggesting that we have a DIY section on the website? A how-to section?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Bruno2

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Yes, a DIY section is where threads like this should end up so they can be referenced fairly easy bypeople looking for some small projects or upgrades. Things like 3G upgrades and such as well.

Gary Lewis

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Administrator

Ahhh, we are talking at cross-purposes. You are talking about this thread and I’m talking about taking all the pertinent info from this thread and creating a separate web page for the how-to.

Here are my thoughts about various approaches:

Facebook: Nice for chatting with people, but horrible for documentation. People jump in and take the conversation in multiple directions. And most search engines don’t find things on FB so the documentation will never be found.

Threads: Better than Facebook as the discussion will be indexed by search engines, but still poor for documentation.

Whiteboards: This is my term for a locked thread, which I’ve allowed authors to do in the Projects folder. So you, as a member, can create documentation without others taking the discussion hither and yon.

Web Page: By far the best way to document. You get to keep the topic on your train of thought, and there are far more tools available, like captions to pics, or galleries of pics, or text beside pics, or even embedded spreadsheets or interactive pages where clicking on something takes you to another part of the page.

My plan has been to take the salient points from this thread and create the appropriate web page to House it. In other words, use this thread to tease out the issues in order to make the web page “correct”.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Administrator

I need some help. How does the heat control cable connect to the 1985-86 control? The parts catalog shows there to be three different cables: 1980-82; 1983; and 1984 - 89. But, I thought there were essentially only two different control setups: 1980 - 84 and 1985 - 86.

Here's a pic of the cable I have from a 1982 truck and the 1985 control, and I don't see a way to connect it. What am I missing?

That appears to be the stumbling block in swapping a late control into an earlier truck or vice versa. Here's what I've found of "connections":

Heat Cable: This is the one un-answered question. So, if we can answer this one I think we will have this nailed.

Vacuum: There's a vacuum harness for each of the controls, meaning early vs late, and you have to use the correct harness. But, the vacuum motors didn't change, so use the harness for the control you have.

Blower Motor: The blower speed switch was the same from 1980 through at least 1989, so this connection is not an issue

Tank Selector: There were several different switches, but they will swap from the early control to the later control and vice versa. So, this isn't a problem if you have both controls available.

Illumination: The connector for the bulb to illuminate the control is different from the early to late control. But, the socket, wire, and connector can be easily swapped from one control to the other.

Function Switch: The connector on this switch went from a square plug to a flat plug, but both have the same 4 wires. So Jonathan/Ford F834 has figured out how to pull the pins out of one connector and put them in the other, so this one isn't a problem either.

Bottom Line: If there's a way to use the same temp control cable then I can write up a how-to on swapping the controls. And then I can write up the how-to on the shut-off valve, which will refer the reader to the how-to on swapping HVAC controls. Make sense?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Administrator

Getting ahead of the game, I've done three things:

1: Created a tab labeled Swapping Controls on the HVAC/Integral AC page. That explains how to put earlier controls on a later truck, or vice versa if you were so inclined.

2: Created a tab next to that one called Heat Shut-off on which I explain how to shut off the hot water flow to the heater core.

3: Added a topic to the Resources called HVAC, and included on it links to the two things above.

So, please read through those and give me upgrades, corrections, etc. And, please answer the question about how the temp control cable attaches to the later control lever.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Note that I edited the referenced post as the indicated valve will not work. It opens with vacuum instead of closing.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Vacuum Controlled Heater Core Valve

Administrator

Gary, I have not had a chance to read through the links yet, but just very quickly I will say that the new style controller needs the new style cable. It has a squeeze lock end that pushes into a hole on the white plastic leg on the back of the controller, and the cable tip is a dog-leg that goes through the little hole on the metal lever. I will try to get pictures of this if I still can on mine.

Also, from what I see, the old style vacuum switch and square connector was 1989-1982. The flat connector and new style switch happened in 1983 when the face design changed.

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

12345