USB Charging Port Questions

As part of Big Blue's transformation I'm going to install a USB charging port, or ports, in the dash to support long distance travel with various electronic devices.  So I'm wanting to get some conversation going on how best to do that and what the USB requirements might be, and I thought I'd do that in another thread rather than Big Blue's to get more people involved.

I've been thinking I'll use the USB port on the big 3000W inverter that will be behind the seat and just wire it up to a port in the dash.  However, with a bit of Googling I've found that USB outlets are not common.  Instead, USB charging ports, meaning outlets with built in chargers, are very common and inexpensive.  Further, many of them go right into the hole where the cigar lighter is.

So I'm now thinking that going that way is best as it would be extremely easy to install in place of the cigar lighter.  In fact, it seems to me that a 1-port charger would be adequate, and if someone needed another port they could reach behind the seat and plug into the USB.

And I kinda like this one as it not only has a switch so the always-on power of the cigar lighter's wire can be turned off, but it also has a digital voltmeter.  The downside is that this supports QC3.0, and that isn't supported by Apple devices.  Instead, what it appears I should look for is a port that supports "Power Delivery".  However, the only things I've found that support that are the type that plug into the cigar lighter, and I want one to replace the cigar lighter.

So, what do you think?  Is one easily-accessed port enough with another available?  Is this one interesting?  Do you have other suggestions?  Do you know if a port that supports Power Delivery?

Ok, time for an update.  This page from Belkin does a good job of explaining the Power Delivery charging technology.  And Wikipedia explains QC3.0.  From those I think I understand:

Power Delivery = USB-C.  So to use this technology you'll have to have a USB-C to whatever cable. For a reasonably late model iPhone that would be USB-C to Lightning.  For an Android that would be USB-C to USB-C.  And, there are chargers with from 18 watt to 100 watt capabilities.  iPhones will use up to 18w while iPad can go above 27w.  However, 18w appears to be adequate to power most things - I think.

QC3.0: This uses the standard USB cable, but QC3.0 is only supported by a limited number of devices running a Qualcomm chip.  That chip negotiates the needed current with the charger, and if you plug a USB device in that doesn't support QC3.0 it'll get charged, but at the old USB rate.

So far I've only found a few cigar lighter replacement ports that have USB-C.  This one from Amazon has both USB-C and QC3.0, although the USB-C is only 18w, but it doesn't have an on/off switch.  So I'm thinking it might not be a good one to use in our trucks as the always-hot cigar lighter wiring would cause some battery drain, at least for the volt meter.

Thoughts?  Other options?

I don't get into all the fancy this type or that type of charging, as long as it will charge my Android phone I don't care.

Now my work truck has 2 lighters(powered all the time) and 1 is used for the trucks EDL (electronic Drovers Log) that is an Android tablet running the EDL app. and this is thru an adaptor with 2 USB ports, 1 for the tablet the other is for my Android phone.

The other port I have a lighter port extension and think 2 USB ports that sits on top of the dash.
1 USB is to my truckers GPS and the other is a spare for when I have a trainee to plug their phone into.

Now my 81 only has 1 lighter port but I have an adaptor I picked up at Walgreen's Drugs that has think 2 USB ports that I use 1 port to charge my Android phone when needed.
Yes it is powered all the time so I just pull it out a little, has a light when powered, so the light goes out or all the way and set it on the seat.

My Dodge has a lighter with a lighter charger that has a cored that fits my phone but also has a USB port if needed. This lighter port does turn off when the key is off. This charger has the phones name on it so must have gotten it when I got the phone 6 years ago.

Again I just want to charge my phone or run the GPS that plugs into the lighter.
sorry cant be of more help
Dave ----

Ps:The Dodge also has 2 other lighter outlets. 1 center consul and the other at the tail gate.
I do have an small inverter in the consul I used to power my laptop when I was working for Dell on field repairs but have not used it in years.

You could wire in a switch for it.

On my Xterra the power ports are the ignition switch. I like that.

Dave - Thanks.  But I have a wide variety of devices, and while I could take all of the 110v chargers and plug them into the inverter, I'm thinking that it would be nice to have heavy-duty charging available right in front of you.

Dane - I think your switch idea is the best one.  It would be easy to wire a switch in right there in the "ash tray", although I'd like to come up with something a bit fancier than having an unused tray there. Perhaps an aluminum panel that would have the USB port, a switch for it, and an AC outlet?

I'm researching, while drinking coffee and watching it snow!

This one is rated at 36 watts, which is twice what the one above has.  So I'm thinking it is a pretty good one, but perhaps we'll find something a bit stronger 'twixt now and when I need it.

That would make good use of the ashtray space!

Edit: I just got done cleaning snow off the vehicles.

I have not looked as I right now I use the tray as a "catch all" LOL
But if you had another "door" remove the try and fill it in with a sheet metal panel and besides the lighter hole you might be able to add 2 more holes and place more of the power ports in there with maybe a switch.
When nothing is plugged in you could turn it off and close it so not seen.
Dave ----

Really need to pay attention to the amp output for charging your phone vs wattage as well. That one says QC3.0 so it is probably about 2.6 delivered amps which at 12v would be about right for max rating of 36watts. If you want to max your charge speed look for a 4.6/5A output which would be a QC4.0 pushing up to 100w. QC 4.0 is compatible with PD so you get the best of both worlds. PD can output 5A but only on standard USB connections, USB C connections are typically only 3A.

Granted finding this in the application you are looking for is probably going to be difficult. QC3.0 is the most common to find. You will probably be better off leaving the cigar socket in and getting a plug in charger like this that is QC4.0 and will give you 5A of charge:

https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Quick-Charge-Adapter-Smart/dp/B07VV2WFPQ/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=QC+4.0+car+charger&qid=1578767526&sr=8-5

I actually just put a port in the van on our holiday trip to support our travel freezer. Granted the cigar outlet is what I needed, bonus was it came with some extra USB ports. It is a 36watt outlet split between a 1A and a 2.1A usb port. The cigar outlet is a 30amp outlet for running that travel freezer.

Interesting!  Didn't know there is a QC4.  Did some searching and found this at AnandTech:

Qualcomm Announces Quick Charge 4 Supports USB Type-C Power Delivery: This latest generation brings a number of improvements, but perhaps the most remarkable change is that Quick Charge 4 is now compatible with the USB Type-C and USB Power Delivery (USB-PD) specifications set by the USB-IF standards body.

That's good to know.  However, I'd really like to have an integrated charging port rather than one that plugs into a cigar socket.  One reason is that I am hoping to close up the "ash tray" as Dave suggested.  But we shall see.

My thinking on the latter is to make a bracket as shown by the black lines, below.  Cut the ash tray cover along the red line and then pivot it with arms that come off the bracket.  That should leave enough room for a switch, a USB port, and an AC outlet.

Integrated would be a nicer finish for sure, on our road trip I was using QC 3.0 the whole time using my phone as a GPS and as a mobile hotspot for the kids and it kept my Pixel 3XL at 100% charge. There are a few options that are pre mounted in brackets that have a separate volt meter, switch and usb outlets too.

I'm a big fan of the idea of converting the astray space. I want to manufacture a bracket that folds back into the ashtray when you close it and pops up when its fully opened. It would have to hinge at the front lip, then push the top back to fold it together. I haven't tested the room there yet but I am betting its plenty for a few switches and 3mm LEDs, or a display.

USB standards are backwards compatible.
If you have a USB 3.0 charger and a 2.0 device there's no problem.

You should ask Chris, as he incorporated a lot of this in his SVO console.
There's plenty of wattage available at the cigarette lighter.

Yes, they are backwards compatible.  But I'm wanting to get up to the latest standards when I install it so it'll last for a while.  And USB-C/QC4.0 appears to be the latest.

As for Chris, if I remember correctly he had a large hydra-headed USB charger plugged into the cigar lighter on his SVO the time he brought it down here for the show, which was several years ago and the standards have moved on since then.

The beauty of the latest standard is that the device negotiates the needed current with the charger.  And since iOS now has better charging algorithms than previously it'll tailor the charge to its needs.  No sense going with old tech when the prices are pretty much the same for the new stuff.

Charging has always been negotiated, by either pulling one pin high, or varying resistance across two pins....  whatever.
It's the newer cables and pins that can handle more current.

Perhaps you ought to wait until you're underway.  
Standards change every generation.
What did CES introduce this year?  

Standards that AREN'T going to change are: the American 3-pin 120V AC receptacle and the 12V cigarette lighter/power port socket.

If you are suggesting that several new charging standards will come out before I get to this, then I hope you are wrong.  (Although experience teaches otherwise.  )

But this project will be after Big Blue is back on the road as, other than running wiring under the carpet to the inverter, it can all be done after the fact.  So maybe I should run the wiring under the carpet to start with.

Anyway, I've learned quite a bit from this exercise.  I'd not heard of QC3.0/4.0 or Power Delivery, nor that the latter is part of USB-C.  And I certainly didn't know that newer cables are required.  

Quick Charge is Qualcomm's proprietary standard.
Samsung has Adaptive Fast Charging, and there are others.

The point is that the port needs to be up to date and the cable as well.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Quick Charge is Qualcomm's proprietary standard.
Samsung has Adaptive Fast Charging, and there are others.

The point is that the port needs to be up to date and the cable as well.

Yes, but QC 4.0 incorporates Power Delivery (USB-PD).  So a QC 4.0 port should play nicely and charge rapidly a PD-enabled device like an iPhone X.  But I'm still confused as to what cable to use.

Let me say it differently.  This charger says it is both QC 4.0 and Power Delivery Type-C.  So, do you use a standard USB cable to charge an iPhone or a USB-C cable?

Here's what the advert says:

【USB TYPE C OUTPUT】30W USB TYPE C Power Delivery usb car charger enable fast for more powerful devices.For Apple iPad Pro,MacBook,MacBook Pro,MacBook Air, Nintendo Switch, Samsung Galaxy Note 9/8/S9/S9 Plus/S8/S8 Plus Nintendo Switch and more at full 30W speed. The USB-C comes with USB 3.0 Power Delivery and QC 4+, so you can enjoy 50% faster charge speeds for compatible devices.

【Power Delivery (PD)】Charging is basically a fast charging protocol which is making use of the great functionality and universality.Type C port also supports Qualcomm Quick Charge QC4+ which is fast charging for iPhone car charger. Get a convenient universal adapter that's perfect for your USB-A and USB-C devices. Whether you're recharging your tablet or topping off your smartphone for the day ahead, the Fast Charge Dual Output Car Adapter's lets your device reaches full capacity soon.

【USB-A OUTPUT】USB Type A Qualcomm Quick charge QC3.0 can charge for iPhone 11 / 11 Pro / 11 Pro Max / XS MAX /XS / XR/ X / 8 Plus / 8, iPad Pro, Google Pixel 3 / XL / 3a, Samsung Galaxy smart phones, tablets and more USB powered devices.

【ALL METAL MATERIAL】The advanced full aluminum alloy body with scratch resistant technology keeps it sturdy and let the usb c car charger always look like new. This car charger has a full metal body made of zinc-aluminum alloy that is resistant to scratches. The charger fits most car cigarette lighters.

【COMPACT TRAVEL CHARGER】The usb c car charger will not block anything near the cigarette lighter socket unlike a larger cell phone charger; Edge ridge design provides easy insertion and removal from vehicle lighter socket. Now, you can get small, affordable car chargers with powerful USB-C ports built right in, no cooling fans required. The inbuilt high-class circuitry offers protection against short circuit, high and low voltages, overcharging and high temperature.

You need a USB-C port and a type C cable.

An adapter to a USB-A port or an A or B cable is not capable of delivering 30W.

Ok, thanks.

Type-C is probably the best way to future proof yourself as well. It is an excellent evolution of the USB connection.

TheScatch wrote

Type-C is probably the best way to future proof yourself as well. It is an excellent evolution of the USB connection.

That's the conclusion I've come to as well.

So, if anybody spots a nice USB-A & USB-C charging port that goes in a cigar lighter hole, I'm interested.  (Yes, I could put a nice 12v power port in and plug a charger into that, but I'd like to integrate it better than that.)  And I'm thinking that I'll have a small switch running a Bosch relay to provide power to the charging port, so it won't have to have a switch nor a volt meter in it.