Tranny shop said ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

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Tranny shop said ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

reamer
This post was updated on .
Terry of Terry's Transmissions told me the chatter I get from that sweet spot where there is no acceleration  OR deceleration load, can be eliminated with a dual-mass flywheel.. Says it keeps a "minor" load on it at all times = less/no free chatter...
Thoughts?
1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

Rembrant
reamer wrote
Terry of Terry's Transmissions told me the chatter I get from that sweet spot where there is no acceleration  OR deceleration load, can be eliminated with a dual-mass flywheel.. Says it keeps a "minor" load on it at all times = less/no free chatter...
Thoughts?
It works for diesel Volkswagens. If you replace the factory dual mass flywheel with a single mass flywheel (a fairly common mod) one of the side-effects is transmission chatter.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/GT40 heads, BBK headers, Holley 4bbl, XE256H Comp Cam, M5R2 5spd swap, Magnaflow full duals. Fresh Medium Blue Metallic in August 2019.
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

Ford F834
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In reply to this post by reamer
Are there dual mass flywheels for gas applications? I thought only diesels got them 🤷‍♂️

Dual mass / DMF is a dirty word in diesel circles because they like to grenade and shatter the ZF main case, not to mention the clutch & flywheel set being $600-$800 price range to replace. The adage is that it does not hurt anything except your ears so most people try different fluids, add sound deadening material under the carpet, turn up the radio and live with it. Honestly if diesels didn’t need overdrive so bad I’d be tempted to keep my T19.
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 SRW under construction-- 7.3 IDIT R&D 64mm intercooled turbo 150cc IP stage 1 cam main girdle 13" Southbend clutch ZF-5 + GearVendors overdrive 4.10 axle gears hydroboost brakes

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4 conversion-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

ArdWrknTrk
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This post was updated on .
Like I said in the other thread 'its a truck transmission in a pickup truck. if you want a car go drive a car'

Or do like I do and keep your foot in it until you run out of steam or room to accelerate.
I doubt your Windsor's going to top out at 130, but I don't know your gear and tire size.

No DMF for 460's, I doubt the little Windsors got one.
https://www.zf.com/products/en/buses/products_29241.html

Edit: perhaps you ought to check the backlash in your R&P.
While the DMF was installed on diesels to smooth out torquey power pulses from the engine, you're not getting that while cruising in 5th with a 351.

Throw it in neutral and see if it's just rollover.
If it is, overfill through the shifter tower or run a thicker one of the MANY Zf approved lubricants and expect sluggish shifting when cold.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

ArdWrknTrk
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Have you considered the Mazda 5-speed?

It's a lot more like a car gearbox, and your having a 150 there's no real downside.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

Rembrant
ArdWrknTrk wrote
Have you considered the Mazda 5-speed?

It's a lot more like a car gearbox, and your having a 150 there's no real downside.
I have the Mazda 5-speed in my truck and I'm quite happy with it...BUT, it does get a fair amount of hate from a lot of the truck crowd. I even have a spare 88-91 M5OD spare trans for rebuilding (winter project one day perhaps). I think Ron uses his truck for towing a trailer sometimes, so he probably wants the heavier trans...just guessing.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/GT40 heads, BBK headers, Holley 4bbl, XE256H Comp Cam, M5R2 5spd swap, Magnaflow full duals. Fresh Medium Blue Metallic in August 2019.
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

ArdWrknTrk
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Fair enough.
I've not heard him mention pulling a camper, boat or equipment trailer.
Maybe I was not paying attention.  

Again... it's an old (tech) truck.
If you want it to do truck things, get used to it.

Or drop the better part of $100,000 like Gary did on Blue.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

reamer
Yeah, it has to work sometimes, other times, truck shows. I like the ZF,,,Beats the no-OD NP435 with granny 1st.


1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

1986F150Six
Nice! Like a real cowboy wearing a Stetson!
1986 F150 4.9L manual O.D. 3.08 Duraspark MSD ignition w/ no EGR
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by reamer
Do like I said and throw it in neutral while coasting at highway speed.

You'll know right away if it is rollover rattle or coming from the rear (or maybe even the transfer case)

At any rate, you'll have a much better understanding of the noise that bothers you so much.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

reamer
Thanks Jim
Actually the T-case is at Terry's right now being inspected, re-sealed.. Most of the leaks in the drivetrain is from the T-case.

May do what you suggested and go with a heavier fluid, since it's not a winter driver. any suggestions on fluid?
1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I don't have the link anymore since ZF changed their website.
If you find the zf5 s42 troubleshooting manual on their site they have a huge range of fluids.

Everything from light mineral oils and ATF up through full body gear oil.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

reamer
This post was updated on .
Will do!

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

Gary Lewis
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In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
We have several ZF manuals on the site: Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions/ZF5.  Might that info be in there?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by reamer
Ron,
That list of 01/19 is certainly much more current that the list I had bookmarked.  

Obviously Mercon V  is the current Ford fill.
Iirc my fill plug was tagged 'type H'

But as a summertime driver SAE 75-80 shouldn't drag the synchro's too badly.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

grumpin
When I had my ZF, 1988 F250, 7.3, I tried a few fluids. Amsoil ATF worked the best. Good shifting hot and cold.

I’m not an Amsoil dealer or big fan, but I have had good success with their ATF. Really helped our Suburban, it would “hunt” between lock up and third and OD.
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1997 Mazda 626 LX 2.0L G25M-R
1998 Suburban LT K2500 454 4L80E
Oregon
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Re: Tranny shop stayes ZF chatter can be eliminated with Dual mass Flywheel..

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Dane, I would say the same about Royal Purple Synchromax.

When I first got my Zf-5 it had been sitting outside for years.
Because I had a crisis when I blew the input off my T-19 it went into service without opening it up.

I drained and filled what I can only call 'strawberry milkshake' a few times and ordered the RP from Amazon.
I will say it shifted better with the $$ gear oil, but I can't say if it was any quieter.
I know my gearbox is old and tired.
It has the common rattle at idle in neutral and the pocket bearing if I lug it when hot.

Anyway, like you I'm not shilling, just a satisfied customer.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.