Too tired to search for start problem

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Too tired to search for start problem

BeagleRock
Hi gang,another semi-stupid question.
 83 ford f150 351w won't start w/key intermittently but will start every time w/remote starter switch from Harbour Freight.
 Key switch on column is kind of stiff but it still turns on everything i.e.; Radio,blower fan etc. Oh and the engine does turn over every time via the key it just won't start.
 Thanks Randy
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Randy, you might try checking the neutral safety switch (or the clutch interlock, if '83's have them)

If you consistently get signal there, maybe it needs adjustment or replacement?

Your Sig doesn't say which transmission you have...
If it's an automatic, try starting in neutral instead of park next time it happens.

If you have a clutch switch, you can unplug it and jumper the harness socket with a spare 15-20A fuse.
I showed pictures of this a month or so back.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

BeagleRock
Sorry it's a C6 auto.
 Yes I thought about that but was leaning towards the ignition switch as I occasionally have to jar or thump the steering wheel to get my gauges and blower motor to come on.
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Completely disregard my first reply.
Somehow I never read the second paragraph of your post.

Can you imagine how many times it's been used in the last 36 years?

Try looking at the EVTM's under resources when you get some rest.
Go to the ignition section and find starter engages but no spark.


Either there's no power to the coil, or a problem with the distributor/ignition box.
Intermittent electric problems are the most difficult to diagnose.

It never cuts out on you while driving?
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by BeagleRock
I'd bet on the ignition switch.  It is a common problem this time of year as things start getting cold - and this morning, Randy, it'll be worse with the wind whistling through from Canada.  But usually the truck will run although the gauges and blower motor won't come on.  However yours is just slightly more badly adjusted or the grease is harder, and it isn't allowing the switch to come back to the Run position fully.

One thing you can try instead of bumping the column is to roll the key back a bit farther.  But the way to fix it is explained on the Ignition Switch tab here: Documentation/Electrical/Ignition.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

BeagleRock
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
Thanks Jim, no cut out while driving. Yes that switch has been used a few times for sure!
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

BeagleRock
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Good morning/afternoon Gary and yes it's a bit frosty today and yes the grease has become hardened because its been stiff for awhile now, even when temps were in the 90s. I'm inclined to believe the ign. Switch is faulty mainly due to the jarring required to get some things operable. A cleaning w/deoxit would more than likely cure my problem but $15.99 for deoxit vs $19.99 for a brand new Borg Warner switch. I think I'll install a new switch w/lifetime warranty.
 A good cleaning and lube job however is necessary at this point as it's getting very difficult to turn the key switch. I fear if I don't fix this I'll be looking at repairing that little switch engagement rod or whatever its called. Anyway thanks for the diagram and experienced knowledge!
 Stay warm tonight
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

BeagleRock
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Good Sunday afternoon Gary,it's a beautiful day to replace ignition switch. It's done ,however I failed to mention last week ,and this sounds weird. So I'll do my best. When you turn the key to start ,the engine turns over fine but won't actually start until you release the keyswitch because you're thinking its not going to start. I hope you understand that little explanation. Also on the old ignition switch the starter would grind as if to still be semi-engaged but still you would have to release before the engine would actually start but the starter grind would happen while releasing the keyswitch.
 Any questions let me know please and enjoy this beautiful November day in okie land!
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Randy - Did you use the process shown on the Ignition Switch tab here to properly set the switch up?  Documentation/Electrical/Ignition.

As for the day, it is beautiful!
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

BeagleRock
Not completely, not gonna lie. I'll go do that now.  Thank You!
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

BeagleRock
Hi Gary it's been awhile since I've been back on the site. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year BTW.
Referring to the your last post on this thread I did go back and complete the proper procedure for setting up the ignition switch and I still have to back off of the key switch to get her to start so I bought an ign. Switch for nothing. Anyway is there any other items that would cause this problem i.e.;starter solenoid or fusible link or maybe just a poor ground?  
Thanks Randy Brown
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Randy - Do I understand correctly that you turn the key to Start and the engine cranks, but it doesn't actually run/fire until you turn the key back to Run?  And that you've replaced the ignition switch itself and it didn't change?

If that is right, then I think you have a wiring problem in the area circled.  I say that because if there's no power to the red/light green wire in Start then you won't have any spark until you turn the key to Run.

The way I'd test it is to pull the little red/light blue wire off the starter relay so the engine won't crank, put a meter or, better yet, test light on the coil where the red/light green connects, put the other lead to ground, and turn the key to Start.  You are supposed to have power there in Start as well as Run.  But my guess is that you don't have power there in Start.

Just watched the weather on Channel 8 and tomorrow looks to be a good day to do that testing.


Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

old55pete
I had a similar problem with an 80 LTD with a 351 W, engine would crank but wouldent start until you let off of the switch. It turned out to be the crank shaft poshion sensor. It took several hours and a brake out box to figure it out. Long and short of it was that the sensor was sending the reference voltage back to the ECM only in the "run" poshoin but not the "start" poshion.  
Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears, Tilt steering, factory AC
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

BeagleRock
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Yes you are correct Gary as I can start truck normally when using the remote starter connected to the solenoid and battery. I also discovered that there is a considerable amount of rust on the positive post of the solenoid which I'm about to resolve when I get back home.
 Thanks for the schematic also! I can't seem to find my test light but do have 3 multimeter's going back to my cash register repair business along with an oscilloscope.
 On a pleasant note National carb is sending me a new reman to replace the one that whistles Dixie. I put your dad's old carb on and it ran much better than the original one they sent me which is disheartening considering I paid $200+ for a bolt and go carburetor. I'm just sad that it took so long to convince someone that there's something wrong with the original one that was sent to me. Especially since they had ME replace the choke pulloff diaphragm and replace the #48 jets with #57's which was supposed to have been done prior to shipping out.
 Thanks for responding and have a great remainder of the weekend. 61 deg. Tomorrow 😁
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

BeagleRock
In reply to this post by old55pete
Thanks for responding Pete, I disabled my eecIII system therefore eliminating the cps. I have a working one if you need for future use. Just let me know.
 Have a great weekend!
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

old55pete
Thanks for the offer. My Bronco has EECIV and it is intergrated into the halefect sensor. What are you running for an ignition system?
Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears, Tilt steering, factory AC
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

BeagleRock
Ok no problem, I'm running an HEi distributor these days, seems ok but I haven't really gotten to put miles on it not just a test drive to the convenience store.
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by BeagleRock
Glad you are getting another carb.  What a pain!

As for scopes, I have a scope that I recently used on a Honda to determine that the computer was sending a signal to the coil-on-plug system for all cylinders, although #2 doesn't always run.  

And I have multimeters, but I've always wanted a Fluke.  Yesterday Brandon/Bruno2 (from BA) told me about a new Fluke 233 that's for sale at a good price.  I'm thinking.....

Anyway, it was a nice weekend.  But Caroline Brown just mentioned snow in the middle of this coming week.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

BeagleRock
Her last name is Brown, she must be wrong 😉
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Too tired to search for start problem

Gary Lewis
Administrator
You know of whom I speak, I'm sure.  We were at The Mercantile in Pawhuska one day a year or so ago and she was there as well.  I talked with her for a while and enjoy seeing her on TV.

But she and Dan Threlkeld are now saying it'll snow tomorrow night, and so far they've been wrong every time.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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