Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

grumpin
Ok, that’s good you know where you stand with that tranny.

Hopefully the right option falls into your lap!

Out of curiosity, how long does 2300 gallons last? I ask because I bet I would cut down a lot if I had to get it like you do.
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

Danny G
In reply to this post by Ford F834
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

Ford F834
Administrator
Thanks for the links. I have looked at the Izuzu and they would surely haul the weight, but I guess I gravitate to vehicles I know more about. The Izuzu turbo diesels are probably efficient but I have no idea how they compare. Phoenix has the Craigslist deals, but I don’t usually look there. It is 3-4 hours from me, and I’ve had more bad experiences than good ones when responding to ad’s in Phoenix.

Grumpin, we need to be more careful than most with our water use, but it’s not easy. We have 5 people in our household, so there is plenty of laundry and dishes and bathing going on. In the winter the cistern will last about a week to ten days. (I figure a 275 gallon tank per day on average) in the summer the usage is double or more. We run 3-4 swamp coolers and they can evaporate ~75 gallons per day each. We have a limited garden which may not make monetary sense, but you can’t put a price on the therapeutic benefit and the quality of food.


I did contact the seller of this F450. He wants $1,000 for the truck. It had a 7.3 IDI in it that overheated and blew a head gasket. The engine is partially dismantled. He sold the ZF5 transmission, and unfortunately the related parts went with it (the driveline brake, the hydraulics and the pedal box). He also sold the passenger door. It’s been sitting about two years. The truck is ~75 miles away, so a towing bill needs figured into the price. I have a running 6.9 and ZF sitting in this parts truck:

http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Not-what-I-was-looking-for-but-I-could-not-pass-this-up-td33094.html
The missing hydroboost pedal and driveline brake are a little concerning for sourcing replacements. The missing door is just obnoxious but not a deal breaker. It’s more project than I really want, but the shoe somewhat fits regarding my parts truck. One thing I could do in place of the parking brake is mount the DNE2 overdrive that I have. I would then need a yoke mounted caliper parking brake and no doubt a driveshaft modification, but that might not be a bad alternative to buying the rare F450 brake since I would get a .80 overdrive out of the deal in case I did use it on the highway for other hauling. Next week I will price the towing bill, and maybe go have a look.
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Jonathan,
The newly rebuilt brake from the 450 I parted may still be available.
I don't think the brake or Zf ever found a home....

I'm down at my sister's right now, but she's on the mend and I have things to attend to.
I hope to be back in CT by midweek and will look into it.

While I know it's a heavy chunk to ship, I also know it is right for that truck.
I'll have to ask Don if he's got it and what he'd want for it.
I can usually barter some truck repairs or welding for parts.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

Ford F834
Administrator
Thank you Jim. That would be helpful if I make a deal on this rig. Do you happen to know if E4OD trucks had this, or was it ZF only?
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I'm pretty sure it is Federal regulation that all vehicles must have a mechanical means of emergency braking, or default to stop, like air brakes.

Of course this doesn't address what happens if you lose a U-joint in your 450.  😲
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

Rembrant
In reply to this post by Ford F834
Ford F834 wrote
Grumpin, we need to be more careful than most with our water use, but it’s not easy. We have 5 people in our household, so there is plenty of laundry and dishes and bathing going on. In the winter the cistern will last about a week to ten days. (I figure a 275 gallon tank per day on average) in the summer the usage is double or more. We run 3-4 swamp coolers and they can evaporate ~75 gallons per day each. We have a limited garden which may not make monetary sense, but you can’t put a price on the therapeutic benefit and the quality of food.
I'm no help with the heavy haulers but I've been following along with interest. We have a shallow dug well at our house and it sometimes gets too low in the summer and we have to be careful with it. My wife is a city girl that never had to worry about water growing up, so it has taken me a long time to get her to be conservative with it in the summer! The girl next door to us ran out of water twice last summer and she's angry enough about it she wants to dig a deeper well. We've had to call a water truck a couple times for a fill up, but that's somewhat extreme for us...I believe we had a running toilet last time that drained it when it was dry. We could put in a drilled well, and that would solve the supply issue, but it then creates other issues, like requiring treatment.

Jon, can you do a drilled well? Or is there simply no water to hit (or it's too deep).


1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Cory, there are usually two issues with desert wells.

Little and only seasonal rainfall to replenish the aquifer, and competition for that finite resource.

Depth, which goes hand in hand with the above.

Wells will run dry.
If your well is deeper than your neighbors, you can literally undermine them, drawing the table down below their well.

I know in Palm Springs the Water Authority has wells 1,000-1,200' deep.
That's an expensive proposition and very powerful (lots of watts) pumps are needed to develop that kind of head.

If you're farming you can likely write it down (depreciate it) on your taxes, but you have to have to make that capital investment first.

ETA: Water quality is another issue.
With lots of evaporation and typically highly alkaline soils the water that does perc down may be unusable.
Too turbid or too saline for consumption.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ford F834
Jonathan - I can make the hydroboost pedal.  I have pedals laying in my way and could put a pin at the right spot on one of them.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

Rembrant
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
ArdWrknTrk wrote
That's an expensive proposition and very powerful (lots of watts) pumps are needed to develop that kind of head.
I'm actually in the pump business. That's what I do from Monday to Friday when I'm not searching for rusty Ford parts;). I'm working on an application now that requires two 28" vertical pumps each with 1000HP electric motors. However, I don't do municipal water projects all that often, and never residential.

I was just curious about Jonathan's water situation is all...and not his situation specifically, but more generally curious about Arizona. Around here, A residential dug well like mine is usually between 12-15 ft deep. Residential drilled wells are often 2-300 ft deep around here.

A grew up on dug wells, and being conservative with usage in the summer is just a way of life. Having to haul water to your home is completely foreign to me, so I'm following along with fascination. I'm no help with heavy haulers;).

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

FuzzFace2
In reply to this post by old55pete
old55pete wrote
So, here is a heads up from an owner of a brick nose F Super duty. First off, this truck is great, It has an 11 foot utility box on it. That box has a welder in it, 35 gal 12 hp compressor, torches, and carries enough hand and air tools to rebuild a C 15 cat on the side of the road. It currently tips the scales at a hefty 13800 lbs. The max GVWR is 17500 and we have towed a 14000 lb capacity trailer with an 8000 lb mini excavator behind it.

All of the guys in the shop love this truck and fight over who is going to run it. All of that being said, It will only run at about 73 mph, wide open. That wont bother you as you say you are only going a few miles at 45 mph. The other draw back is that even tho they have ten bolt wheels, they still only have 16 inch wheels and tires. and finding tires that will support the weight that this truck hauls, and you are talking about hauling is like finding hens teeth. I have found a tire that comes in a mud and snow tread that has all steel cord in both the tread and the side wall. They are about 400.00 a copy. That's 1600.00 plus tax and what ever other fees to re tire the drive axle.

There is no doubt in my mind that an F Super Duty would do the job that you are trying to do, Just hope that the AZDOT does not get wind of it. If they are as big of pr...… jerks as they are around Prescott Valley, they would have a field day with it.

As with some of the other guys on here, I would have to agree with no bed what so ever. Just enough structer to support the tank loaded. You  might also want to put full fenders on the rear to keep the tires from throwing rocks through the rear window and breaking the mirrors
I see he hit on just about everything I did.
I did forget about rocks thru the rear window and I should have known as it happened to me.

I thought someone shot at me and hit the truck.
I wish the owner would put half fenders covering the front axle wheels as it would also keep the back of the cab & rear window clean.

On the truck needing the motor / transmission and  a door that has been off for a few years would not be the way I would go. I think too much work for the money in return what you end up with in my book.
Its just a matter of being in the right place at the right time.
Think I would still be looking at the larger trucks under the 26,000 weight CDL limit.

I did drive a late 70's F600 dump truck for a paving co. back in 83. Gas 330 v8 with a 5sp & 2 sp rear. Truck was rated for 5 ton and a full load for us was 10 ton. This was before DOT came down on trucks like they do today and yes needed a CDL for it and when I got mine.

Do you have old school buses for sale out there that would be under the 26,000 weight?
Farmers use them around here and cut most of the back off leaving a few seats for workers to sit going field to field and the open back for product to take to a holding area.
Might find a shorter one to mount the 1000 gal tank on.
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

Ford F834
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary Lewis wrote
Jonathan - I can make the hydroboost pedal.  I have pedals laying in my way and could put a pin at the right spot on one of them.
Wow! Thanks Gary! I will let you know if I need this.

Jim- I assume the E4OD’s must have a parking brake, I just don’t know if it’s the same one as on the ZF-5. As I recall ZF actually made that parking brake.

On the well situation, results vary widely around the valley. Some folks up against the mountains don’t have to go too deep if they are in exactly the right spot, but they do have issues with low flow and poor quality. In my neighborhood, I’ve heard people going 600-800 feet or so, and I’ve been told to count on 1,000’ and be prepared for the the possibility that I may invest $15K+ and only hit wet sand. I think the investment would be worthwhile, but I want to build a home first. Many residents do the math and find it cheaper to have a commercial hauler bring it for the rest of their lives. I prefer to be self reliant and I don’t like anyone coming through our gate and being around our dogs etc., not to mention I can haul it myself for half the price even considering the gas for 275 gallons at a time. We have enough stress without being paranoid over every drop. Water at the standpipe is actually cheaper per gallon than for residents with street meters, I just have to get it to our property...
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I'll take measurements and pics to be ready, just in case.

And, I have a Bricknose pedal assembly, although it was from Huck and he had an E4OD so it probably won't have the right casting for a manual tranny.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

Ford F834
Administrator
Thank you Gary... I have a manual pedal box in the red donor. I actually have a hydroboost pedal that I bought for the crew cab, but I believe it is still at my dad’s house. And come to think of it, I found an automatic hydroboost pedal, and it might be easier to graft on the smaller pad than to change the pin?

Dave, I’m not too terribly worried about the truck that’s been sitting a couple years. I will pretty much have to go through whatever I get. Diesel fuel can sit indefinitely and not go bad as long as water does not get in it. Our dry desert climate helps. My crew cab sat a couple years Once between uses and after a battery jump it was like it never sat. But I’m getting ahead of myself... I have not seen it. A “couple” years might be a lot more than two, and who knows what all this guy isn’t telling me. I realized I do somewhat know the guy though. He runs a horse rescue and sells stuff at a swap meet here. Very sweet and kind gentleman. The truck was donated and he used it until it failed. His non profit org has no funds for expensive diesel repairs at a shop so here it is...

There is another running one on Facebook marketplace in Vegas, but it looks pretty rough. I like the bed better, and running is always good, but seems abused.


SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

FuzzFace2
That does not look like and auto with the stick up thru the floor?
Other than the hood, the bent from panel by the left head light and a few marks here & there does not look too bad. Think anything you look at is a given will need a seat.
That bed wood looks dried out more than anything.
How long is that bed? Guess not long enough for the 1000 and the basket is there?

I would look at this one on just how ruff it is and what work it will need if you can get him under 2k great or even at 2k may be good, again depending on work needed.
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

Ford F834
Administrator
Dave, both marketplace ads said automatic on the list but were not. Maybe a default? I know it is probably inaccurate to equate body damage with general misuse/mechanical neglect, but the buckled hood, multiple dents, broken wing window covered in cardboard, plywood shift boot ring, missing arm rest & switch knobs etc., just smack of it not being cared about. The description “Runs. Work truck diesel” has worn out somewhere between the lines. I am guessing I would find myself swapping out that engine sooner than later, as a poorly maintained 7.3 is not a good thing... I wouldn’t mind a look-see but Vegas is a 4 hour round trip just to check it out.

Old55pete, Internet lore says GVWR varied by which engine/transmission and axle ratio it had. I am not seeing any consistency there, however. I am curious as well. The tag I posted was from a FTE thread. The “project” truck would not be a rebuild. I have an engine/transmission to drop in it and I would do tires, brakes, hoses, belts, and fluids like I would do to about any purchase. It is more work than I really want, but not unreasonable. If the price to move it isn’t outrageous I will probably go for it. The seller sent me a picture of the certification label. Gears are 5.13, wheelbase is 161” which is better (for me) than the 185” listed on the other guy’s tag.
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

swampedout
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
I havent read the entire thread so I apologize if this is irrelevant or already discussed:
Around me on CL, Denver to Tucson, I see actual water hauler trucks for sale. For me its been just a fantasy so I havent looked into them too thoroughly but I remember seeing many that looked reasonably priced.
Obviously there are drawbacks for such a purpose built vehicle but it might make sense for you.
Most arent 4x4 and I dont know what your terrain is like but around here the water and propane trucks go a lot of squirrely places without 4x4. So long as you can avoid the snow and mud.
Sam
1984 F250. 460. C6. 4x4.
 MSD Ignition. Airbag rear suspension
Whole buncha problems
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
A 450 isn't going to be 4x4 unless Quigly or a PO converted it.

Then there's the issue of finding 10 lug 4x4 hubs and spindles to put on it.

I didn't think Ford made any 4x4 C&C trucks back then -even 350's- but I may be wrong.

A dedicated tanker might make sense, especially if it could be shared among a few
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

swampedout
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
The other thing, if you have the time, is to call around at construction and landscaping companies and see what they have sitting around the yard. My job has two tanker trucks that never get used. Im sure they need work but you never know who wants to sell.
Sam
1984 F250. 460. C6. 4x4.
 MSD Ignition. Airbag rear suspension
Whole buncha problems
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Re: Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

swampedout
Around here, you can make some money hauling water for sure. At least enough to offset the cost of the vehicle over time.
Im sure AZ has a lot of water needs too. And sadly thats not something thats going to change.
Sam
1984 F250. 460. C6. 4x4.
 MSD Ignition. Airbag rear suspension
Whole buncha problems
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