Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

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Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Some of y'all know of the issues we've been having with the Subaru's cooling system, but it may well be solved.  So I wanted you to know what it appears to have been and what has been found.

First, the symptoms were that if you drove it for a long distance it would push coolant out into the expansion tank and not pull it back.  After a few cycles of that the expansion tank would overflow and coolant would be lost.  And the radiator would be low.

To me that was a classic radiator cap problem, so I replaced the cap with a brand new Stant.  But it did it again on a 3 hour drive, and again on the return.  So I took it to a professional, told him what the problem was and what I'd done.  Here's what he did:

Pressure test: Held 15 psi for 7 hours

Idling: He idled it for 6 hours with the A/C on - no problem and it didn't exceed 198 degrees

Products of combustion: Thinking it might be a head gasket, again, he tested the coolant and there were no products of combustion in it

Hoses, etc: He checked every connection known to man and there were no leaks.

Finally, at his wit's end, he checked the brand new radiator cap closely.  And it is bad!  In the pic on the left you can see that the bottom gasket is off to the side.  And in the picture on the right there's a piece of brass showing under that gasket.  So this thing won't hold pressure.  



So, he had the parts store get him a new Stant cap, and it came in a Gates box.  So he had them get in three more - all Stants and all in Gates boxes.  Did Gates buy Stant, or vice versa?  




So I think the moral of the story is don't trust new parts.    I say "think" because we don't know for sure that it is fixed.  But, as said, I felt all along that the symptoms are perfect for a bad radiator cap.  And looking at that cap, it is bad - in several ways.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

salans7
I used to pull rebuilt alternators out of the box at Advance, only to have small parts fall out of the alternator. Also used to open BWD sensor boxes to find Duralast branding on the inside. It's all junk, it's just a gamble to find what wasn't actually poorly built.
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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
According to this, Gates bought Stant in 1997: https://ww2.gates.com/Dutch/brochure.cfm?brochure=11102&location_id=17265#:~:text=Gates%20acquired%20%22Uniroyal%20Power%20Transmission,the%20field%20of%20design%2C%20development.  I wasn't aware of that, but I guess it explains the Stant cap in a Gates box.

As for it all being junk, I'm believing you.  It really is frustrating.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I said from the start 'Stant isn't what it once was', but I didn't realize it was Gates.... 😆

This is really a disappointing revelation, because I've always felt Gates was high quality.

At least Stant weren't bought out by Mr. Gasket.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, I guess it could be worse.  But the mechanic said he's had it happen before with Stant parts.  I think I'm off Stant.  And wondering about Gates.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
So who do you choose for coolant components?

And don't start with some BS "fail safe" garbage.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Robert Shaw?
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

Gary Lewis
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In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
Don't know.  My go-to guy just failed me and I find that he is part of a larger family that I thought was the gold standard.  So now I'm lost.

Suggestions are welcome.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
ArdWrknTrk wrote
Robert Shaw?
That's probably a good suggestion.  However, that won't work for 'stats for an M-Block as they quit making them.  But Tim Meyer acquired the rights and is now having them made - in Australia if I remember correctly.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Fearing it is part of the Gates family I Googled Robertshaw and found this: "USA: Controls company Robertshaw Holdings has been acquired by a subsidiary of New-York-based private equity company One Rock Capital Partners."
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I'm well aware of all the 'investment portfolios' that buy up and gut iconic brands.

Then we have things like Berkshire Hathaway, who own dozens of American icons, and seem to provide support and a way forward.

I don't know what to say
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

myrl883
It's sad that all of the good, older companies are being bought up just to be raped for all of the money possible. That's why I push OEM parts if they're available! (OK, that pays my bills, but that's beside the point... )
Ford Parts Monkey since 1985
1981 F100 Flareside - Black, 302-4V Roller/AOD
1986 F150 Flareside - Medium Fire Red 302/AOD
1989 F150 Standard Cab 4x4 - Dk Shadow Blue 302/AOD
1993 F350 4x4 Crew Cab - 7.3 IDI/ZF-5
I think it's a sickness...
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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
That was my first question when Gary mentioned that the Subaru needed a new cap.

But he said the dealer was in Broken Arrow, and it was too far when the LAP was right there.

I guess you roll the dice and take your chances..  
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, I obviously should have gotten one from Subaru.  Still could as David found one for the same price I paid for the one from Stant: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-OEM-Subaru-Radiator-Pressure-Cap-Forester-Impreza-Outback-Legacy-Baja/143040584700?epid=192031538&hash=item214de21bfc:g:pMsAAOSwqu9U2U35

Thanks, David!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
David's just amazing with his eBay sleuthing!  ðŸ‘‘

I'm sure the dealer makes parts deliveries to local garages.
Maybe you should befriend the neighborhood repair shop?

Maybe you should just hang out a shingle of your own?
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I'm on a first name basis with the repair guy.  As I am with DeWayne from Skiatook Auto Parts where I bought that part.

But I do not want to hang out a shingle.  I already have a number of people calling on me.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

1986F150Six
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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary Lewis wrote
Thanks, David!
You are welcome!
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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

1986F150Six
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In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
ArdWrknTrk wrote
David's just amazing with his eBay sleuthing!  ðŸ‘‘
Jim, you are making me blush.
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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Just an update on this, our SiL said he pushed the Subie to "at least the speed limit" on his way to Jenks two days ago.  Yesterday morn he checked the coolant level in the expansion tank and it was right where it was when he left here.

The kids are coming tomorrow evening to get Blue for their trip to Colorado as I want to make sure they have an enjoyable trip, and they are leaving the Subie.  So Saturday morn Janey and I'll take it on jaunt to a quilt shop in Hennesey, which is 125 miles away.  It is supposed to be warm and we'll use the turnpike part of the way, so this should be a good test.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Subie Cooling Problem Solved?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Well, it ain't fixed.  Yesterday we drove it 275 miles, most of which was running 65 - 75 MPH with a very strong crosswind.  The temp never wavered, sitting exactly where it always does.

But the expansion tank, which started just a bit higher than the Full mark, was almost completely full when the trip was over.  Not so full that we'd lost any, but still very full.

And this morning it hadn't sucked any back into the radiator.  Granted it was still warm in the garage, with the outside temp 79 degrees and in the garage it may be in the 80's.  But it hadn't pulled any back.  And when I pulled the radiator cap it spit a bit of coolant out of the expansion tank.  I don't know if there was still pressure in the system, but it didn't feel like it.

I'm thinking the cap isn't opening up and allowing the vacuum to suck coolant back in.  So, I want to put a Subaru cap on it and do more testing, and think we'll drive down to BA to the Subie dealer tomorrow to get one.  (Should have purchased the one David found.  )

And I'm also going to pull the hose from the radiator's neck to the expansion tank and make sure it doesn't have any leaks.

Then I'm going to pull the fan connectors and let it idle until the temp comes up, at which point it should push coolant into the tank.  And I'll shut it off and see what happens.

Anybody with better ideas?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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