Starter Solenoid / Relay

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Starter Solenoid / Relay

Dyn Blin
Good afternoon all.  Happy New Year Eve.

A hauling favor for a friend has me a couple hours from home.  After stopping for gas, I had a no-start, with nothing coming on when I turned the key.  It's cold today, so at first I thought it might be the key switch, but after a couple of jiggles, I popped the hood and found this:



I got her started with a positap connection between the remnant of the wire coming out of the black grommet (the single wire stub has a back with orange solid stripe on the insulation exterior) and the blue/green wire that's not connected in the pic (it connects to the positive side of the starter solenoid).

I don't have my EVTM at hand, and although I'm mobile, will stop for a cup of coffee and a sandwich while I review some web searches on the phone .

(Edit, having some trouble with images from the phone-retry)

While I do, can anyone tell me what that wire connects to, and if I should wire a fusable link between the two before I start home?
Sonoma County,CA
1982 F150 Flareside XLS
NP435 4x4
351W Motorcraft 2150

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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Mark - The black/orange wire is the fuselink to the main switch.  You need it.  I'm not sure you need to go find a fuselink to replace it with right now as it won't be an issue unless you have a short elsewhere.


Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

Rembrant
In reply to this post by Dyn Blin
According to my 1984 EVTM, that black wire with the orange stripe is the main power wire from the ALT to the Battery (positive side of starter relay). It should have a fusible link, yes...but if I was stuck on the side of the road I'd hook it up direct to get home and then fix is properly later when you have better control. How far do you have to go? 10 miles or 100?

I'm no expert...so somebody may very correct me here. I can only say what I'd do if I was stuck somewhere.

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

Rembrant
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Oh, sorry Gary, I was looking at the BK/O wire from the ALT with fuse link "D" a little below where you highlighted.

Don't mind me...lol.
1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Cory - Maybe I have the wrong one?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

grumpin
I believe you have the right one Gary, because Dyn had no power. I had the fuse link Cory is talking about go out and had power but no charge.

Butt connected it and drove about 700 miles from Salt Lake City to home, after an alternator change in a motel parking lot.
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona
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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

Rembrant
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Well, the one you have highlighted (fuse link "D") on the BK/O wire looks like it supplies power to the headlights?

I was looking at the other BK/O wire in the diagram below...fuse link "E", between the ALT and the hot side of the starter relay. I'm not sure how it would stop it from starting, but it also connects to the Voltage reg...so if that circuit was broken, maybe that stopped it from starting?...I dunno...



1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

Dyn Blin
In reply to this post by Rembrant
I've got 150 miles to cover before I am back in the driveway.

Lights work with it jumped. Doesn't seem to be getting hot, so hopefully not shorted somewhere else.  Seems too small a guage for the alternator, but we'll find out.

Thanks gentlemen, the fast response is appreciated!

Sonoma County,CA
1982 F150 Flareside XLS
NP435 4x4
351W Motorcraft 2150

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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

Rembrant
In reply to this post by grumpin
grumpin wrote
I believe you have the right one Gary, because Dyn had no power. I had the fuse link Cory is talking about go out and had power but no charge.

Butt connected it and drove about 700 miles from Salt Lake City to home, after an alternator change in a motel parking lot.
Right...good call.
I think either way, he's plenty safe to splice it together for now to get home, and then fix properly with a fusible link later. IMHO.
1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

85lebaront2
Administrator
In reply to this post by Rembrant
On these trucks, the power from the battery goes through the alternator harness then inside the cab. I swore the first time I was sorting things on a bullnose that I wanted whatever those EEs were smoking when they designed the system. In the words of Cheech and Chong, "must have been some dynomite sheet mon."
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

grumpin
In reply to this post by Rembrant
I believe that goes on to the fuse panel.
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona
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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

grumpin
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
85lebaront2 wrote
On these trucks, the power from the battery goes through the alternator harness then inside the cab. I swore the first time I was sorting things on a bullnose that I wanted whatever those EEs were smoking when they designed the system. In the words of Cheech and Chong, "must have been some dynomite sheet mon."
My wife wondered what I was laughing at!
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona
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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

Steve83
Banned User
In reply to this post by Dyn Blin
Dyn Blin wrote
The LB wire from the starter relay to the yellow butt crimp is probably 18ga fusible link wire.



It looks like it was just a REALLY-BAD crimp.



But the best fix for it is the 3G swap with the later-style harness:



...and for the record: regardless what parts stores call it, it's absolutely a RELAY, as Gary's diagram indicates.



It wasn't until '92 that Ford began using starters with solenoids, but the solenoid is always ON the starter:

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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

Dyn Blin
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
Bill- you're not wrong.  I tried to follow it down with the flashlight after I got home and didn't get past the alternator.  I'll head out with the EVTM in the morning when the sun is up and follow it back further.

Steve- 'good advice to swap out to a new harness with an updated alternator.  There's not much wire left on that B/O stub to pass the current.  I'm surprised it held up on the trip home.  There's only about half the strands left and it  looked in pretty poor shape when I got them into the positap connector.  The link you posted from your documentation was informative, the fusible link detail was new to me- thanks.

Some little guardian angel reminded me last week to throw the neat Klein crimper/pliers I received for Christmas into the ammo box I keep the truck tools in, and *one* positap connector was in there large enough to fit the wire coming off the relay, but not too large to catch what was left of that broken wire to the alternator harness.  I'm thinking some lengths of various gauge wire in the box is a good idea, too.

Thanks again to everyone that jumped in to assist.   The members here are an amazing set of resources.
Sonoma County,CA
1982 F150 Flareside XLS
NP435 4x4
351W Motorcraft 2150

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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

Rembrant
Dyn Blin wrote
Some little guardian angel reminded me last week to throw the neat Klein crimper/pliers I received for Christmas into the ammo box I keep the truck tools in, and *one* positap connector was in there large enough to fit the wire coming off the relay, but not too large to catch what was left of that broken wire to the alternator harness.  I'm thinking some lengths of various gauge wire in the box is a good idea, too.
And this thread reminded me to print a copy of my EVTM and throw it behind the seat as well;).
1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Starter Solenoid / Relay

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Dyn Blin
Mark/Dyn - Sure glad you made it home safely.  Your guardian angel was working overtime.  

You are right, the folks on here are amazing!  Lots of help.  And as for my texts, you are welcome.  Just wanted to make sure you were getting help in the heat of battle.  (I won't text back right now as it is 5:30 AM there.)
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI