Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

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Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I think I had an ahah moment today, and I want to bounce my thinking off of you.

Also, I need to apologize to Bill/85lebaront2 as I think he said there is a speed control switch on the clutch pedal and I said there wasn't.  Turns out there is on Big Blue.  But....

Also, I now know why I couldn't find my NOS clutch start switch - I was looking for a clutch speed control switch.

Yes, there are two switches associated with the clutch pedal/lever, as shown below.



But, it appears to me that you can have one or the other, but not both.  Here's a pic of the two switches, with the starter switch on the top and the speed control switch on the bottom.  I say that because both of them mount in exactly the same place.

I'm confident in that because I mounted both switches to Big Blue's clutch pedal today, and they certainly do go into the same holes.  But tomorrow I'll do some more investigation and take some pics to show you what I'm talking about.  And, I'll also suggest some ways to have both functions, which I need on Big Blue.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Rembrant
Mr. Gary,

SO interesting that you brought this up! I was just digging into this myself in the background!

I was digging around and searching for factory cruise control parts, and I came across the switch below on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OEM-Ford-E4TZ-9A837-A-Speed-Control-Release-Stop-Switch-1984-87-F-150-350/184086206149?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

And just this past weekend, I dug out my spare pedal set that I removed from a 1986 F150 at the junkyard last year (Which by the way is identical to what is in my 1984). I was curious where the cruise control switch mounted when the truck had factory installed cruise?





I'm guessing the cruise switch mounts on the back side of the existing bracket on the pedal set pictured above? My 1984 is exactly the same.

By the way, on a side note, if you look up the part number for the clutch with with dealer installed cruise, you will find all kinds of them on Ebay as they fit many other vehicles besides the trucks.
1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
You may be onto something!  If the cruise switch can mount on the same bracket that might solve the problem.

I knew I needed to bounce this off others.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Rembrant
I was holding off on buying the switch because I didn’t know where it mounted.
1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
My speed control switch doesn't always work correctly and I'm thinking about getting another.  Did you find a replacement for factory speed control?  Or are you going with the dealer-installed variety?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

salans7
In reply to this post by Rembrant
I can verify, they do indeed mount together on the same bracket. I removed mine from my clutch pedal assembly and donated them to another member here as I will not be utilizing Speed Control on my truck.
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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Excellent!  Man I'm glad I posted this.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

85lebaront2
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary, Darth's is sometimes a bit wiggy on the on-off switch, meaning I will activate the cruise, then go to set it and nothing happens. Re-engage the cruise "on" switch, and it will set then. I am dealing with 24 year old switches (1996 steering wheel), you are dealing with 35 year old switches on Big Blue.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yep, this 35 year old switch ain't working too well.  I put contact cleaner down it and it got less bad.  Finally put brake cleaner down it and it improved some.  It still doesn't always work, but I'll keep playing with it.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

reamer
Both are used, As you said Gary, the top one allows the truck to start, but one switch goes on the clutch, and another one goes on the brake pedal (but on the same aluminum housing).....That way, you touch the clutch, it shuts off the cruise, OR touch the brake, it shuts off the cruise.
1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks
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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Ford F834
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary I am remembering mine to have both switches, but how they were mounted is a bit cloudy in my memory.

I pulled mine out during Jan’s ZF swap when we realized he needed the manual brake pedal with the HD vacuum pin location. I had a manual pedal box lined up for him but it had the light duty vacuum pedal. It was also at this moment that I realized pedal boxes for speed control trucks had a threaded bolt hole and bracket alignment hole that were missing on the non speed control pedal box. I should have (somewhere) the photos I took of mine when I took it apart, but I don’t have them handy.

If you are not having any luck with your horn pad speed control switches, I have several horn pads that you are welcome to try... to see if a different 35 year old switch works any better! 😁
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Hmmm, it didn't seem right when you showed your wiring diagram where you eliminated the brake pressure switch and streamlined the inputs to the speed control.

It's often challenging for me to suss all the details of a system I don't have, but you've obviously got the right help here!  👏
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Jim - Yes, we have the right help here!

And, while the parts washer is cleaning the crossmember, I did some checking and the bracket does provide a position for both switches, as seen here.  (The empty bracket is just to help you see how the switches go on.)




And here's a side-by-side of the pedal up & down to show how the switches work:

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Ford F834
Administrator
Very nice pictures Gary! This will come in handy when I go to re-assemble my crew cab after it’s long slumber. These pictures will end up in the documentation pages I trust?
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

1986F150Six
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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Jonathan - I've added lines to the Forum & Website Upgrades spreadsheet to add both a page on these switches as well as one on hydroboost - when I get mine done.  (We'll collaborate on that.)

That's the beauty of our website.  We can convert conversations on threads into web pages that pull from all the conversations as well as Ford documentation and offsite info to create a holistic result that helps everyone.  (Not all forums are coupled to such a website.  )

David - The bad news is that I've already ordered the speed control switch.  The good news is that I got it for $20 w/free shipping, which I think matches what you fou.nd.  But thanks anyway
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Rembrant
In reply to this post by Rembrant
Rembrant wrote
I was holding off on buying the switch because I didn’t know where it mounted.
Gary,

I just wanted to circle back to this thread and say thanks for the info. I just ordered a factory clutch switch myself and it was the last piece of my aftermarket cruise installation puzzle. The aftermarket companies sell generic clutch switches, but this one being a factory piece that just pops in place and is a 2-wire N/O makes it perfect.

One quick question though. On the VSS there are two wires. One is the pulse output to the controller obviously. The other is just tied to ground, correct? I'll be using a later style VSS that bolts to my 5spd trans, but I assume they operate exactly the same as the cable mounted Bullnose VSS?
1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Welcome. Glad it helped.

On the wiring, the black wire may be ground, but it is tied to the speed control amplifier, as shown below.

And I assume with you that the VSS that mounts to the tranny/t-case operates the same, but I don't know and I don't think I have any documentation that tells.  My later EVTM, the '95 one, shows a rear axle mounted VSS and it goes to the PSOM first, so is different.  But the one you are talking about has both a cable and an electrical output - right?


Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Rembrant
Gary Lewis wrote
On the wiring, the black wire may be ground, but it is tied to the speed control amplifier, as shown below.

And I assume with you that the VSS that mounts to the tranny/t-case operates the same, but I don't know and I don't think I have any documentation that tells.  My later EVTM, the '95 one, shows a rear axle mounted VSS and it goes to the PSOM first, so is different.  But the one you are talking about has both a cable and an electrical output - right?
Yes, I'm using the 1988-1991 style VSS that plugs into the transmission, and then the speedo cable plugs into it. I've confirmed that the Ford VSS output is fine for the aftermarket cruise, but the instructions only tell the installer to splice into one of the existing wires to the VSS (and this is what I have done with the cruise system previously). The problem is, my truck does not currently have a VSS, and therefore no wires going to it. So I know the VSS output is fine, I just wasn't sure what to supply it with.

I looked at the EVTM as you have shown above, and was curious where the ground wire comes into the Amplifier (C717) is that tied directly to the ground in the C727 connector? That black ground wire is labelled #57 from the ground to the amplifier and then back out to the VSS. I was just trying to confirm that all I needed to supply TO the VSS was ground.
1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Speed Control Clutch Switch & Clutch Start Switch Mutually Exclusive?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I'm not 100% sure I understand your question, but black is almost always ground, and Circuit 57 is ground.  But the "727 connector" bit throws me.

It looks to me like 727 is just a normal 2-pin connector passing the two wires.  So I thought maybe you meant "717", but its pin-out shows a connection for #57 and another for #57A, and I assume the latter is from the VSS.  So I'm guessing that the speed control amp itself passes a ground signal back to the VSS to complete the circuit.

In any event, I believe you are safe grounding one side of the VSS and sending the other to your aftermarket cruise system.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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