Salan's 1980 Something

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Salan's 1980 Something

salans7
So here it is, my new 1980 something F250, or maybe F350. Guess only time will tell what it ends up being. ;)


For right now it's setup as a 4x2 with a 302 backed by an AOD. I plan to keep none of that. I do however plan to upgrade to a carb'd 351W, with either an NP435 4-speed or a ZF5 if I can acquire a gold nugget. Up front the kingpin I-beams are already gone, and in their place will be a D60 solid axle. For right now, I'm on the hunt for a new cab since this one was poorly treated and has rust in some pretty interesting spots that patch panels aren't made for. Once I acquire that and a front axle, I'll be ready to start putting the truck back together.


Here's what I started with. The truck was originally owned by Orange County (think Disney World) here in sunny Florida. I found registration tickets dating back to the 90's that confirms it's fleet usage, along with the "Seatbelts must be worn in this vehicle at all time" decal on the radio bezel. After that it's had some pretty rough owners, which is why the cab and bed are no longer useable. However, the frame is in almost perfect condition, which is why I decided to save this one.









And here's how it currently sits. If it makes anybody feel better, all it took to remove the cab and bed bolts was PB Blaster and a breaker bar. None of the bushings spun, and all of the mounting bolts came out in reusable shape. The core support was a different story, but that's to be expected with the front passenger side and leaky batteries.




As of 2/19/19, all that is left on the frame is the rear Sterling w/4.10s and an L/S, brake lines, fuel tank, steering, and half of the suspension.




And here's a good shot of why I chose this Bullnose.





-Shaun
1980/86/90 Ford F350 4x4 ENG?/NP435/D60-Sterling
2003 Ford Ranger V6/M5OD/8.8
"I didn't choose the bullnose life, the bullnose life chose me."
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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

Rembrant
The frame does look good in your truck! Well done.

I'm in almost the exact same boat with a 1985 F150 4x4 project. Frame is not as nice as yours, but it is repairable and worth fixing. The cab was junk. I've already peeled the whole body off of it like yours, and I bought a replacement "southern" cab that while not perfect, it is very fixable.

In any case, keep us posted on the progress please. I'll be watching closely since I'll be working my way through some of the same things over the next while.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/GT40 heads, BBK headers, Holley 4bbl, XE256H Comp Cam, M5R2 5spd swap, Magnaflow full duals. Fresh Medium Blue Metallic in August 2019.
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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by salans7
Shaun - You are going with an upside-down M?  A Wheezer?  

Yeah, that makes sense, or cents, as there's lots more aftermarket support for the little W's than the M's.  And yours was set up for that with the engine stands.

As for the tranny, with 4:10's I think you'll really be disappointed in anything w/o an OD.  Granted Big Blue has a 460, but it also has 3.55's, so torque is probably roughly the same.  And 65 MPH on the highway is 2500 RPM.  Way too high.

But a ZF is expensive as they frequently need to be rebuilt, and that's costly.  Still, they are really nice to have.

Anyway, I'm following.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

salans7
 I will definitely try to update when I make some decent progress. Sounds like you have quite a project too Rembrandt!

 Gary, I learned with the 1980 that anything with a designation of "335" is a hastle to find parts for, and as you mentioned, the wheezer will go in without having to source another set of perches.

 I'm looking to throw on a 4" lift, either through springs or through a shackle reversal. I've still got plenty of research before it gets to that point however. Tires and wheels will be 35's on 16x10 chrome "bullet hole" wheels. So that will definitely play a huge role in my gear ratios front and rear.


 I agree, a 1.00 to 1 4th gear ratio isn't the best for highway driving, but I only plan for this truck to be my occasional cruiser and work horse, so it won't be the end of the world for me. My little Ranger is running 35's and 4.88's with an OD ratio of 0.79 and it runs right around 2400 rpms at 65. That little 3.0 V6 needs all of the help it can get. Haha.


-Shaun
1980/86/90 Ford F350 4x4 ENG?/NP435/D60-Sterling
2003 Ford Ranger V6/M5OD/8.8
"I didn't choose the bullnose life, the bullnose life chose me."
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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

grumpin
I had a 351W in a 1978 van, and have one in my Bronco. I really like them, the 92 is real nice.
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 Suburban LT K2500 454 4L80E
2000 Nissan Xterra XE 4WD 3.3 RE4R01A
Oregon
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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by salans7
Shaun - The 335 Series engines aren't cheap to build.  But Tim Meyer has the parts, so it can be done.  However, the easy and less expensive way out is with the Windsor, so it is a good choice.

And 35's will help with the overall gear ratio.  So if you aren't cruising very much a 1:1 top gear will work fine - especially if you stay with the Wheezer's 3 1/2" stroke.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

salans7
That's definitely the plan. The most I'll do to the engine is a little port matching, and some bolt ons.

Although I want this truck to resemble a 1980, I'm going to try hard and avoid heading down the same rabbit hole I did with my last truck, attempting to make EVERYTHING period correct. I saved a lot of parts from the 86 that I hope to re-use when the time comes.
-Shaun
1980/86/90 Ford F350 4x4 ENG?/NP435/D60-Sterling
2003 Ford Ranger V6/M5OD/8.8
"I didn't choose the bullnose life, the bullnose life chose me."
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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

FuzzFace2
So where is the rust that cant be fixed? The picture of the cab that I can see does not look that bad.

I think mine was a lot worst than that.


And that was just the left side had to do the same on the other side also.

I got to ask you guys doing the cab swaps how you going to deal with the VIN being different than the frame VIN?
You have paper work on the frame & cab to show the DMV that you own both?
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

salans7
Good question.

For the rust, both rockers were swiss cheese, from the front a-pillar all the way down to the cab corner interior panels. The bottom of the firewall is gone, as are quite a few spots in the cowl box. The reinforcement panel for the brake booster is hanging on for dear life, and behind that is all gone. The roof has a base ball sized hole from a CB antenna that was mounted there at one time, but when it was removed, it was never properly sealed, so the interior roof panel is rusted out in multiple places. The cab corners are gone, both inner and outer. For salt belt standards, this cab wasn't really bad, but for Florida standards, it was terrible. Relatively rust free cabs are not hard to find down here, although finding one with a title or an owner willing to write at least a bill of sale is harder than I though. More than likely I'm going to have to buy a running truck and part it out just to get a useable cab.


As for the VIN, Florida is very lax on vin checks due to the lack of inspections. However, the proper procedure is to take both the frame vin and the cab vin to the DMV along with the truck, and they will assign the truck a new vin and a new title that covers both. Of course, this makes it a rebuilt title vehicle, and therefore it will not have a clear title, even if both previous titles were clear.


However, most people cheat the system and will just title the new cab in their name, and throw the cab on their old frame and avoid the trip to the DMV. Because there's no inspections, there's no way for the state or local government to know the difference unless that vehicle is investigated due to theft, accident, or some other circumstance. That's why you see so many vehicles in poor condition driving on Florida roads, there's very little oversight.
-Shaun
1980/86/90 Ford F350 4x4 ENG?/NP435/D60-Sterling
2003 Ford Ranger V6/M5OD/8.8
"I didn't choose the bullnose life, the bullnose life chose me."
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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

Rembrant
In reply to this post by FuzzFace2
FuzzFace2 wrote
I got to ask you guys doing the cab swaps how you going to deal with the VIN being different than the frame VIN?
You have paper work on the frame & cab to show the DMV that you own both?
Dave ----
Dave,

Cab swaps are not a big deal where I live. You would just swap the VIN from the old cab to the new cab and nobody would even notice. Even if they did notice, I don't think they'd care. There is a process that you're supposed to go through here for modifications like tubbing a body/frame to fit giant pro-street tires, etc but for everyday body swap parts and panels, swapping a cab here would be as simple as swapping a bed.

We have inspections here, but only for safety related items, and these days RUST.

It is possible for somebody at an inspection station to get really fussy and fail something, but I've not heard of it personally. Ya know, I see trucks on the road that have had solid axle swaps in the front, and I know they haven't been through the engineering modification approval at the DMV.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/GT40 heads, BBK headers, Holley 4bbl, XE256H Comp Cam, M5R2 5spd swap, Magnaflow full duals. Fresh Medium Blue Metallic in August 2019.
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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

FuzzFace2
It sounds like you guys have it covered.
I fear doing a cab swap and then stuck not being able to get plates because of miss matched numbers.
I guess if you had paper work from both trucks so if the VIN miss match came up you have the paper work.
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

salans7
In reply to this post by salans7
Nothing really new to report, although the engine is now gone, and aside from the radius arm mounts, the frame is now stripped for the solid axle. Finding a cab is a little more difficult than I thought it would be, since most of the "parts trucks" are being sold without titles. Looks like I'll probably have to buy a whole truck and part it out, regardless of whether or not it runs. If that's the case, I'll set my sights on a bricknose since nobody likes them and the cabs are closer than a 92-96. I kept the firewall from the 86 just in case I needed to borrow some panels to make an 87-91 cab work, so I'm covered there.



Figured I would share this little gem with you guys. I pulled it off of the bed before the teardown. Long gone are the days where a rear bumper was an option, and no rear bumper was standard. Even though this means my truck left the factory without a bumper, there was a pretty mangled dealer bumper mounted to the truck, so this was basically hidden for 30+ years.


-Shaun
1980/86/90 Ford F350 4x4 ENG?/NP435/D60-Sterling
2003 Ford Ranger V6/M5OD/8.8
"I didn't choose the bullnose life, the bullnose life chose me."
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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Are you going to blast and paint the frame?  That is a lot of work, and leads to lots of other detail work.  Best to steer clear of that briar patch.  

Seriously though, looks like you are making progress.  And, as Jim says, progress is good.

But will a Bricknose cab let you mount a Bullnose dash?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

85lebaront2
Administrator
Gary Lewis wrote
Are you going to blast and paint the frame?  That is a lot of work, and leads to lots of other detail work.  Best to steer clear of that briar patch.  

Seriously though, looks like you are making progress.  And, as Jim says, progress is good.

But will a Bricknose cab let you mount a Bullnose dash?
Based on what I had to do to get an Aeronose (which uses the same upper mounts as the Bricknose) it will be a bit difficult. At least the steering column mounts are similar. The Bullnose dash is essentially built up in sections, part metal and part plastic. The upper section is several pieces that bolt down with small screws in four locations just inside the windshield. The other item is the VIN location, the Bullnose is further inboard than the Bricknose or Aeronose.

The other big item is the wiring, the Bullnose front end wiring is one continuous harness from the right headlight through the firewall, across the dash then back out through the firewall to the left headlight. All the later models have one or two multi pin bulkhead connectors and the only thing on the right side that penetrates the firewall is for the HVAC system.
Bill Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Thanks, Bill.  That's exactly why I was asking the question as I remembered some of those things from your quest and thought Shaun should know what he's getting into.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

1986F150Six
In reply to this post by salans7
salans7 wrote
Figured I would share this little gem with you guys. I pulled it off of the bed before the teardown. Long gone are the days where a rear bumper was an option, and no rear bumper was standard. Even though this means my truck left the factory without a bumper, there was a pretty mangled dealer bumper mounted to the truck, so this was basically hidden for 30+ years.



My truck also has this little jewel still in place. No need to remove to install the bumper, so I imagine many are still hidden away.
1986 F150 4.9L manual O.D. 3.08 Duraspark MSD ignition w/ no EGR
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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

FuzzFace2
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary Lewis wrote
Are you going to blast and paint the frame?  That is a lot of work, and leads to lots of other detail work.  Best to steer clear of that briar patch.  

Seriously though, looks like you are making progress.  And, as Jim says, progress is good.

But will a Bricknose cab let you mount a Bullnose dash?
Who said you have to run the brick dash it the later year cab?
Why not use the cab as a whole with wiring and use the brick nose so it looks like a brick?

Once the cab and bed are off the frame he has already gone down the briar patch
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

salans7
In reply to this post by salans7
Most I'll do to the frame is degrease it, prime it, and paint it. Maybe throw some rust converter in the mix, but I can assure you guys this is simply a refresh, not a complete rebuild like Gary's 81.

As for the firewall, I've previously documented with pictures the differences between all three cabs via my local junkyard, so I'm well aware of the differences. The biggest thing I'm worried about it the firewall, and the aeronose firewall is just way too different and not worth the extra work, at least for me. The 87-91 cab is much closer, but still a ways off from a bullnose cab. A bricknose cab will only be used if I cannot locate a decent bullnose cab. Just in case I end up with a bricknose cab, I did keep the entire firewall from the 86, from the center of the A-pillars down to 1/4 of the rockers. So I have the entire firewall that I can either rob parts from, or use as patch panels to make a bricknose cab work for my purposes.
-Shaun
1980/86/90 Ford F350 4x4 ENG?/NP435/D60-Sterling
2003 Ford Ranger V6/M5OD/8.8
"I didn't choose the bullnose life, the bullnose life chose me."
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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

FuzzFace2
salans7 wrote
Most I'll do to the frame is degrease it, prime it, and paint it. Maybe throw some rust converter in the mix, but I can assure you guys this is simply a refresh, not a complete rebuild like Gary's 81.

As for the firewall, I've previously documented with pictures the differences between all three cabs via my local junkyard, so I'm well aware of the differences. The biggest thing I'm worried about it the firewall, and the aeronose firewall is just way too different and not worth the extra work, at least for me. The 87-91 cab is much closer, but still a ways off from a bullnose cab. A bricknose cab will only be used if I cannot locate a decent bullnose cab. Just in case I end up with a bricknose cab, I did keep the entire firewall from the 86, from the center of the A-pillars down to 1/4 of the rockers. So I have the entire firewall that I can either rob parts from, or use as patch panels to make a bricknose cab work for my purposes.
Prim the frame before paint??
I did the degrease, hit it with an acid that kills any rust then paint with TSC black paint.
I used the same paint on all the suspension parts so it all looks pretty.

See someone else crazy enough to change the firewall


Its what you do to turn a non-AC firewall into a AC firewall.

Mine is also a cab off frame rebuild but no where near like Gary is doing, I could not drive the truck is I put that much work into it and looked that nice.
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Salan's 1980 Something

Rembrant
FuzzFace2 wrote
See someone else crazy enough to change the firewall
Technically speaking, you also changed the whole floor...lol.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/GT40 heads, BBK headers, Holley 4bbl, XE256H Comp Cam, M5R2 5spd swap, Magnaflow full duals. Fresh Medium Blue Metallic in August 2019.
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