Retrofit EFI question

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Retrofit EFI question

Ford F834
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I have not necessarily decided to go EFI… and if I do it, it will be a ways off in the future. However… there is a parts opportunity happening now and I would like to know if I should take advantage of it…

I can find 300 straight six EFI in the junkyard pretty much any time I like.  However, I have been told that 1996 is the only year that the 300 had sequential fire EFI as opposed to batch fire. Yesterday I went to the junkyard and saw a EFI straight six with a build date of 2-96. I don't know how rare or not this is, but I hate to pass it up if it is a hard to find one-year-wonder. So, does anyone know:

-How to tell if this is the sequential fire system?
-What parts are unique to the sequential fire?
-Is this system worth seeking out/significantly better than batch fire?

I don't really have any business spending money on this, and if I have to buy the whole thing I will have to pass. Even at junkyard prices. But if the “special” parts are a manageable amount I might do it. I have been having carburetor trials and tribulations to make my ‘68 F250 ready for sale, and the one in my ‘81 still isn't right. EFI certainly is more complicated, but might be less finicky and more reliable in the end. Much research is needed, but a guy on FB said he and a friend converted one in a day and were very happy with the outcome.
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Retrofit EFI question

Gary Lewis
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Jonathan - I can't tell you what type of injection the 1995 4.9L's had, but I can tell you that the 1996 4.9's had sequential-fire EFI with a MAF sensor and an OBD-II port.  And from everything I've read that means it is an EEC-V system.

So, how to tell?  Check the wires going to the injectors.  If it is sequential they should be, from #1 to #6: tan; white; brown/yellow; brown/light blue; tan/black; light green/orange.  And it if is batch-fire I suspect they will be tan for one batch and white for the other, but I'm assuming that they used the same wire colors for a six as an 8 in batch-fire.

As for what you need, the cleanest would be to get the ECU and the wiring harnesses under the hood.  The engine harness, the power distribution box, and the wiring that goes into the cab.  But, you don't need the in-cab wiring, although it would be good to have the OBD-II connector that should be in the middle of the dash at the bottom.  And, get the air box with the MAF sensor and the associated plumbing.

Then you'll have a 1996 truck that can be maintained by plugging a scanner into the OBD-II port.  But, there's a learning curve.  Bill's done it and I'm getting ready to do it.  In fact, I talked to Core Tuning today.  And, they will probably be at the show/swap meet in Sept, so you'd have a good chance to talk to them.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Retrofit EFI question

85lebaront2
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In reply to this post by Ford F834
1995 California trucks were sequential and MAF, 1996, all are. The one thing on the 300 EFI, early models had a cooling fan that runs after engine shutdown to blow air over the injectors, later engines Ford raised the fuel pressure so it couldn't boil in the fuel rail. I don't have a 300 EFI engine to look at, I am not sure if the injectors are in the head or manifold on those. I do know that the intake is a royal PITA to work on, even worse in a van!
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Retrofit EFI question

Ford F834
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Thanks for the info. guys. As I suspected there is a lot to consider here... and I'm not even sure I want to pop the lid on this can of worms at all. If it's basically the electrical components and air box I might consider that purchase if the wiring is intact. I will probably go back next week on my day off and have a look.
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Retrofit EFI question

Gary Lewis
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I think it is the electrical components and the airbox/MAF sensor, plus plumbing.  But, I can't say for sure since the EEC-V with sequential and MAF came after 1989, meaning the end of my catalog.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Retrofit EFI question

ArdWrknTrk
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In reply to this post by Ford F834
I'd think the presence of an obd-II port is enough to confirm sefi.

Not sure of emissions requirements in your area, just be aware that air injection moved to the cylinder head with the change to batch fire EFI and paired exhaust manifolds.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Retrofit EFI question

Gary Lewis
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It seems logical that the presence of an OBD-II port says it is an EEC-IV.  However, I've read that some EEC-IV's came with a non-functional port, perhaps as a consequence of the changeover.  I don't know if that is true or not, and have no way of proving or disproving it.  

Anyway, here's the blower Bill mentioned:

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Retrofit EFI question

Ford F834
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In reply to this post by Ford F834
I got in touch with the FB guy who did the EFI swap on a 1984 300 six and picked his brain a little. Here are some of the key points of the conversion:

The swap was a 1995 batch fire set up, not sefi. It was his solution to the feedback carb. He said the sefi/maf type is a whole different animal. Better for adding turbo or performance tuning, but for basic stock operation he recommended I look at the speed density/batch fire type of EFI because it is way easier to find and swap. That is how he was able to knock it out in one day with good results.

He highly recommended that I buy a whole donor, not piece it together from a junkyard. He said all the little details will nickel and dime me to death, and it's better to just have the whole system available. He said I would need a manual trans donor to get the right computer.

For a clean install, he said to extend the ECM wiring about 18" so the power distribution box can sit on the fender and the ECM can mount under the dash with the harness threaded through the factory firewall hole. Two wires need to be tied in: engine temperature and oil pressure.

Very important: the straight six requires a 60psi fuel pump, not the 45psi ones used on the V8's. The notch in the tank that orients the sender is wrong, and he had to snip a new notch with pliers. He used OBS gauges modded to fit a bullnose cluster, but agreed that I could probably fit a 1986 EFI 302 sender with the higher pressure pump. He said the pressure regulator fuel lines, connectors and fittings are all very important. You need a 14 ga or better wire on a relay to power the pump. The later models had a rollover switch for the fuel pump which he decided to delete.

That's the main gist of the discussion, he said he really likes it, especially being able to go out in -5*F weather and just hit the key once and it starts and runs.

For me, I got my question answered. Just pass on the 96 sefi even though it is quite an uncommon find, evidently. I'm better off revisiting the idea if/when I can find and deal with another donor...
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Retrofit EFI question

85lebaront2
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From what I have found out, if the truck has the cooling fan, it is one of the older 45 psi pumps, the 60 psi pump was to solve the heat soak problem, Chevy did the same thing with their 454 EFI engines as the injectors are buried inside the nice ram tuned runner plenum. You may be able to buy pumps that will fit the earlier hangers and the final control is the actual pressure regulator on the fuel rail.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Retrofit EFI question

Gary Lewis
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As of 1987 through 1989 all the F-series trucks used the same fuel pump, regardless of engine.  I don't know how many psi that is, but there isn't a diff between 6 and 8.  But after 1989 I don't know.  (There's that need for a 1990+ catalog again.)

As for the diff between SD and MAF, my understanding (I haven't done it) is that if you are going with a fairly stock engine that SD works fine.  But I'm not sure I agree with the extra complexity statement.  Yes, there are more pins in the connector, but you don't really need all of them as you don't need all that much more in the way of I/O.  Both take the same # of O2 sensors w/o a cat - one on the six - although with a cat the MAF can use two.  And there's the four or so wires to/from the MAF.  Plus six wires to the injectors instead of two.  But, other than that there's not much difference.  And with MAF you are set for whatever changes you want to make.

Another difference is in the use or not of a power distribution box/center.  Bill can tell us, but somewhere between 1990 and 1995 they introduced the power center that sits on the driver's fender.  I think the it is a good thing, but it does require a few changes in the electrical wiring to accommodate it.  And it is the combination of power distribution center and style of EFI that can make it a bit more tedious to find the donor vehicle.  In other words, up to some date the trucks will be SD but w/o PDC.  Then from that date until the change to MAF they'll be SD and PDC.  After that date they are MAF and PDC.

I'm not trying to talk you into anything, but I am trying to get my head, and yours, around the options.



Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Retrofit EFI question

Ford F834
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Thanks for the input Gary. Maybe he is making the crank position sensor out to be a bigger deal than it is... I don't know him or his background, he was just offering casual advice based on the information I gave him. This is why I posted here to get other input.

I still wish I could buy up the sefi specific parts, but buying a major system of parts like that can be a gamble at my junkyards. Some workers want to charge like crazy for every nut and bolt and strand of wire, while others are almost too lazy and under charge. I figure it evens out, but if I pulled the efi and got a stickler scaling my cart it could get insanely expensive. I wouldn't get around to installing it for some time, and if any of it was bad my warranty would be long over. I hate to miss an opportunity but I think I need to keep my focus here and save EFI for another day.
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Retrofit EFI question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
That makes perfect sense.  Trust me, I really need to heed that advice.  

As for the crank sensor, if the 300 is like the 460, that sensor is not needed.  From what Bill and Adam have told me, and I've read it elsewhere many times, the distributor provides all the crank-positioning info the PCM needs.  But, I don't know for sure that that is true for the 300.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Retrofit EFI question

Ford F834
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This post was updated on .
Is this where I envoke the childhood dare: "you first!"
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Retrofit EFI question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill doesn't have the crank sensor on Darth, although he's asking Mark to watch for one there in CA.  And I won't have it on Big Blue nor Dad's truck - which will also use a 460 dizzy.

So the real question becomes if the 300 dizzy is like the 460's, and probably that of the other V8's.  The #1 pin or arm on the reluctor is more narrow than the others, so the computer knows when it goes by and sets the engine timing from there.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Retrofit EFI question

85lebaront2
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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
For all of you, Ford introduced the PDC to the trucks starting in 1992 with the introduction of the aeronose body. This is also the point where the PCM was moved slightly to the right from the 1987-1991 location in a recess in the left air box. The chassis to dash harness interface was also revamped. Up though 1991 the rear chassis harness plugged into either the dash harness (1980-1986) or the front harness (1987-1991). Starting in 1992 the rear harness has a dedicated plug on the firewall that goes into the dash harness. As a result, when looking down next to the left end of the firewall there are 3 plugs, in order outside to inside, 60 or 104 pin PCM, 76 pin Front harness, 24 pin? rear harness.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Retrofit EFI question

Gary Lewis
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Good info, Bill.  Need to figure out how to capture this kind of stuff.  I have harnii from Huck (1990), the '95 that Jim parted out, the '96 that Ray sent me, and the '96 that Mark got in CA.  So I have a bit of a progression in both PDC's and in batch/SEFI.  And having some place to turn to the 'splains it with pictures would certainly help when the time comes to do the deep dive and start teasing out the wires I need and those I don't.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Retrofit EFI question

85lebaront2
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You have an excellent resource in your hands, the one I used, 1996 EVTM.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Retrofit EFI question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Well, "in my hands" might be an overstatement - I let it get 2' away for a bit.  But, its brother should be here any day and then yours will wing its way back to you - along w/some other bits and bobs.

Yes, it is an excellent resource, and unless we create the definitive how-to EFI your 460 on here, I think it is required reading for doing the job.  However, it doesn't explain what the other years have in the way of PDC's, connectors, etc.  And the info you provided re that also helps significantly.  One reason for that is trying to tell the potential EFI'er why they need to pick "stuff" from this particular year, or years.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Retrofit EFI question

Ford F834
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In reply to this post by Ford F834
So I am reading that if you EFI a 300, you really want to switch to the EFI cylinder head because the compression ratio and swirl chamber are what the system is designed to work with. According to my machinist these have thinner casting and are somewhat prone to cracking as EFI runs leaner/hotter, so you want to have it checked/mangafluxed before using one... then there is the block. EFI blocks have a threaded port for a knock sensor. You can fab something for this on an early carb block, but it's another thing to do. I have to say the whole project sounds more like one should just do an engine swap rather than update a carb engine.
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Retrofit EFI question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Jonathan - I'm certainly no expert.  But, what you are saying about a transplant makes sense given the variables in carb vs EFI engines.

This is somewhat similar to the 460 where if you go with the EFI intake/plenums you'll need the EFI heads as the ports are different.  And, if you do that you have to use the EFI exhaust manifolds as those ports are different.

So, your suggestion of transplanting an EFI engine makes sense as then you don't have to worry about the differences.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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