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Possible upgrade in the future?

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Pebcak

Possible upgrade in the future?

Now that I've fixed my fuel problem and am still working on the interior I would like to look into getting my exhaust replaced/upgraded. Right now it's Swiss Cheese from the exhaust back. Holes everywhere.

I'm trying not to get too crazy with this. It's easy to do because of Google.

My nemesis....

EXAMPLE

When I came back down to reality I asked around at work with the "Gear Heads"

and they said the following:

- Get new headers and exhaust at the same time.
- 2.5" Exhaust would be good to get for back pressure and sound.
- Having the exhaust go out the back and dual shouldn't hurt anything.

With all of you knowing my level of knowledge, I'd "like" to have a Dodgeish sounding exhaust. Not loud where it's droning when I drive and not disturb people when I idle through a neighborhood.

As usual, I don't want the cheapest but someday I'd like to have this 351 rebuilt and if I can get things now to reuse later it would be good.

I now step back to listen to the collective and take notes.

1986 F150 XLT Lariat, 4X2, 351W, 1406 Edelbrock Carb - Currently going through an engine rebuild through a "Father/Son Project"

Gary Lewis

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

Administrator

Long-tube headers frequently don't fit these trucks very well. I have really expensive ($600) L&L headers on Big Blue and they are against the frame on the driver's side. So I'm not a big fan of long-tube, full-length headers.

But the shorty headers might be a good compromise. Better flow than the factory manifolds but not fitment problems since they are a direct replacement for the manifolds.

As for mufflers, I don't like glass packs nor Flowmasters. Glass packs can be harsh, and the Flowmasters I've been around haven't had a sound that was pleasing to me. I like Magnaflows as they have mellow sound and don't drone.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

I ran Hooker 6912's on my 84 with a 351W. Only problem I had was the shifter linkage hit. Could not drop the column shift below D.

85lebaront2

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I ran dual Corvair Turbo mufflers (back when you got the real ones, not Chinese knock-offs) on my 1977 with the Camper Special 390. I designed a system and had my muffler shop build it for me. Left side crossed under the tail housing on the C6, then followed the right side down inside the frame. H pipe was just where they started to parallel each other, mufflers were turned long side of the oval vertical. Left muffler was in front of the right so the pipes could be closer together. Dual pipes all the way over the axle and came out on a 45° under the back of the bed, just forward of the step bumper.

Nice deep mellow sound until you stood on it, then as it wound up it "crack". Most fun I had with it, some kid in a Datsun pickup. Kid thought it must have been bad the way he kept blipping the throttle. I let him get a little start and laid into the 390, tailpipes were about head level with the camper out of it.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Pebcak

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

So would something like these be what you're talking about Gary?

Stainless Steel Small Block Ford 289 302 351W Block Hugger Headers

I've read that Stainless Steel is what to look for to last.

And a Thank You for the other options of what to look out for so I don't run into any installation issues NotEnoughTrucks and 85lebaront2. I'll get with the shop to see about routing the way you described.

1986 F150 XLT Lariat, 4X2, 351W, 1406 Edelbrock Carb - Currently going through an engine rebuild through a "Father/Son Project"

Gary Lewis

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

Administrator

Yes, those are "shorties". In headers you want thick flanges so they won't warp and cause leaks. My L&L's have 1/2" thick flanges, and in the year I've had the truck there's been no leaks.

Back on the mufflers, I plan to use a 2-in/2-out Magnaflow. Probably something like the one below. But Bill's idea of placing the mufflers offset would allow using bigger mufflers and still keep them close.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

I did the crossover at the transmission and mufflers one behind the other as well. I put the right side further back in an effort to equalize head pipe length. No crossover and I regret that decision almost as much as the bottles. That thing was loud!

Truck finally rusted away, but I still have not parted it. Plan to reuse the headers and exhaust, (maybe not the bottles) on my Frankentruck. Will be a sad day to part that one out. Drove it for 4 years. Called it "The War Wagon".

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

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In reply to this post by Pebcak

Notice the description says 'fits engines with forward sump oil pans'..

I think you're going to need headers that point back rather than straight down.
Those may clear the crossmember in your 4x2 configuration but definitely won't work in a 4x4.
Also consider starter clearance. Cooking your starter once a month is not good.
There's a reason the passenger side manifold ends where it does.
These may be a better choice from the same source.

Good advice on putting the exhaust out the back.
#1 cause of drone is ending under the bed/turndown tips.

If you do want true dual exhaust at least consider an X pipe.
If you're going with a 2 in - 2 out design consider a stainless muffler with domed, welded heads rather that a roll crimp.
Bear River offers a bunch of lengths and diameters.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Pebcak

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

I was wondering what it meant with the oil pan reference too. Thank You for that education.

I've got those links saved in my "Exhaust" folder here now.

Another thing that people mentioned is that I should ask y'all about an "H" or "X" setup. From reading up on this topic (Thanks Google) I can see there is a lot out there. I can kind of understand how it will balance sound and pressure between the two but I don't know if it will help/hinder my 351W.

With what I've read, the "X" is more common than the "H". Does anyone here have experience with these configurations? Or should I just keep it straight and let the muffler do the job since it has two in and two out? Or am I waaaayyyy off?

I'm in no hurry with getting all the exhaust done at once. I went ahead and splurged and got myself my Sig Sauer P220 Compact.

Soooooo, I'm going to have to get parts here and there for now. Then I'm thinking the installation might be for my Birthday present next month.

1986 F150 XLT Lariat, 4X2, 351W, 1406 Edelbrock Carb - Currently going through an engine rebuild through a "Father/Son Project"

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

Administrator

This post was updated on .

X crossovers are more common *now* because we have better, cheaper, CNC mandrel tube benders and robotic MIG welders available across both manufacturing and repair shops.
It is really the only place to put an aftermarket oxygen sensor in a 'true dual' exhaust. (as opposed to factory bank-1 & bank-2 style)

If you've been looking into exhaust you understand that this all has to do with scavenging and that on the whole, long tube equal length headers are going to help top end, where shorties are going to help*loWer* in the rpm range.
Also that larger tubes need enough exhaust volume to fill them. (either through displacement or rpm's)

In essence you want the shock wave to travel back up the pipe and bounce off the back of the closed exhaust valve.
Then the valve can open while the shock wave is helping pull the spent charge through the exhaust port and down the tube.
It is a complex equation involving supersonic shock waves, temperature, volume, gas expansion ratios, ect. to determine tube length to the collector.
And the distance downstream from the collectors to the crossover. (see Bernoulli effect)

**I am not an expert in this but understand the concepts of fluid dynamics from my rocketry experiments**

Congrats on your recent purchase!
I have an original P220 and find it amazingly reliable and accurate.

Edit; lover to lower. Maybe spell check and Valentine's day influence in Chrome?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

Administrator

Amen to what Jim said. And, X crossovers are more effective than H's since the gas doesn't have to make a right-angle in its travel to go across to the other side.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

Administrator

Flowing *past* the adjacent pipe is what causes low pressure in the adjacent pipe....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

Administrator

I see what you are saying. So, an H is better than an X?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

Administrator

I don't think so, but I was very clear that I am not an expert on exhaust system tuning.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Pebcak

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

That I've ever heard of from talking to people is the "X" configuration. I'd never heard of the "H" until I started searching recently.

On Feb 16, 2018 07:39, "ArdWrknTrk [via Bullnose Enthusiasts]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I don't think so, but I was very clear that I am not an expert on exhaust system tuning.
Lil' Red
'87 F250, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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NAML

1986 F150 XLT Lariat, 4X2, 351W, 1406 Edelbrock Carb - Currently going through an engine rebuild through a "Father/Son Project"

Gary Lewis

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

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In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

I'd always heard/read that X is better than H, but it that probably was due to being able to use both muffler/tailpipe systems for each cylinder. However, if you are looking for scavenging, maybe H is better?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

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In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

The pulse does travel into the other pipe.
Ideally we are tuning for the low pressure after the wave passes.

Dumbing it down... shock waves happen because the molecules of the medium cannot move out of the way fast enough and you have collision instead of expansion.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Scavenging happens in a header collector....

You sure aren't looking for right angles there.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

Administrator

That's for sure. There's a finite end to each tube, and the wave created when a pulse comes out of one tube goes back up the other three - on a V8 using equal-length headers. But, if we put a crossover in downstream of the collector does that cause another set of waves that add at some RPM's and subtract at others?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Possible upgrade in the future?

Administrator

Yes, yes you do have secondary waves,
and collisions, magnification due to interference, standing waves, reverberation, constantly changing temperatures affecting the local speed of sound, energy (heat *and* velocity) lost due to expansion, ect...

This is why I say it is a very complex equation.
That is beyond my abilities -or at least desire- to solve for.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.