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My timing chain adventure begins..

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Steve83

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Banned User

reamer wrote

Not sure how to test a coil...

Haynes manual & a digital multimeter.

reamer

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Soooo. the carb is being delivered tomorrow, from National carb in FLA.
With lifetime warranty, they state they will rebuild, flow test and dyno it.
We see tomorrow if all this recent pain was the carb or I still have the issue.

If all is good, I guess I have to consider the timing chain exercise "guilty by association" with all that slop in it..

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

Gary Lewis

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

Not quite sure what you are saying, Ron. Try that again? I'm kinda slow.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

I think what he's saying is that he feels frustrated the timing chain did not fix the trucks engine problem.

But there was a lot of insistence that it was not a fuel delivery issue.
And I personally still question if it is.
Too much fuel is hard to fathom unless the float valve has sunk or the powervalve failed, and usually these would cause a problem at idle that goes away at higher rpms or under load.

Whereas, an ignition fault usually starts to be noticeable under load, but gets progressively worse over time.
This is really the only thing I can see leaving a fuel fouled plug if the cam timing is ok.

But, as we all know, it's challenging to provide diagnosis over the internet.
Imagine, Gary, if you were a parts swapper and were unable to tell that Big Blues damper had slipped a few degrees.
Would you understand why the engine was down on power? Or knocking? Or running hot?
When everything was right, according to the book.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

Yes, it is hard to diagnose over the internet. One person's terminology isn't the same as another's, and all of a sudden you have a misunderstanding. And a diagnosis based on misunderstandings is usually wrong.

Anyway, we shall soon see if the carb fixes it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

reamer

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Just going by observation. With the carb "security sealed" by the Carb company I could not even take the top off to look at the floats, so pulling the carb showed the intake soaked, and with carbonized plugs.
to eliminate the carb, re-build it.

Same with the timing chain, with over a inch of slop observed, since its not correct, replace the chain/gears.
(needed it anyway)

So if it still runs like crap, off to the next issue.

Timing chain,... Check!

Carb rebuilt,... Check!

Fuel pressure @ 7 psi WOT for 30 seconds, But no load,.. Check!

Dizzy complete rebuild 3 seasons ago,... Check!

Next? Electrical? we will see this after noon...

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

Gary Lewis

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

Makes sense .... Check!

But I'd still dial the fuel pressure down to 5 or less. From what I've read anything over 6 can be a problem, although usually at idle rather than elsewhere.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

reamer

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

If it were leaning towards electrical, like a coil issue, wouldn't the factory tac jump around?
It has always been smooth..

And I always have 2 mounted Duraspark modules, mounted under the hood, 1 pops, instantly plug in the emergency reserve, It ran the same on either box...

The strange issue on fuel pressure is sometimes I observe the pressure on the dial at, say 6 psi, and run the truck for a bit, and it would accelerate fine, plenty of power, yet the pressure gauge would read zero, ( but run fine as mentioned)
Wats up with that?

This afternoon will be interesting......

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

Gary Lewis

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

reamer wrote

The strange issue on fuel pressure is sometimes I observe the pressure on the dial at, say 6 psi, and run the truck for a bit, and it would accelerate fine, plenty of power, yet the pressure gauge would read zero, ( but run fine as mentioned).

I'm lost. You observe the pressure on the dial at 6 but the pressure is zero? Are you saying at some times it is at 6 and runs fine and other times it is at 0 and runs fine?

On the ignition, the tach is driven by the signal in the primary circuit of the coil. But if the secondary circuit goes bad then the plugs won't fire correctly but the tach will read smoothly. And I've seen coils that fail in the secondary when they get warm.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

In reply to this post by reamer

You have 2 modules, but do you have two coils?

0 fuel pressure is not going to cause flooding, in any case.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

reamer

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Dial reads 6 psi, and other times the needle points at 0, but runs/accelerates fine...

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

reamer

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Just one coil, But have another to try if needed...

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

Gary Lewis

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

In reply to this post by reamer

reamer wrote

Dial reads 6 psi, and other times the needle points at 0, but runs/accelerates fine...

Something's amiss - assuming "dial" and "needle" mean the same thing. It could be the gauge is bad. Or the regulator is bad. Or the fuel pump is bad. But something's wrong. And when you are chasing problems anything like this raises red flags.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

reamer

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Sooo here we are, back at were I started...
Carb installed, report from them was "cleaned out idle circuit" that's it, Installed it and no difference. Step on it and Deep sound coming from carb, but the truck does not move any faster, no black smoke, but no get-up-and-go.... And it still stinks (strong odor)

It was running fine all spring and this is all new.
So right now, things I have done...

New timing chain (1 inch of slop in original one).
New fuel filter.
4 year old fuel pump, gas tank, pick up/sender.
Carb just returned from national carb.

New autolite plugs gap 0.043

new dizzy cap and rotor (today).

tried two duraspark modules.
tried two colis

Still falling flat on its face. this was all done with less that a quarter tank of gas, so to rule out a dry-rotted, or hole in pick up tube, tank is full now, and still no good.

2 things I have noticed, plug wires have more resistance that manual states, and checking firing order, (remember it idles smooth) the manual shows #1 plug and rotor position is at about the 2 o'clock position on Dizzy (351cid) .... my #1 position and rotor points to the 4 o'clock position.....

With # 1 plug out, the top of compression stroke (with cam and crank dots lined up) rotor is at 4 o'clock,

With #1 at 4 o'clock, the rest of the plug routing is correct per manual.

Does it really matter where #1 is as long as top of compression stroke is the #1 position?

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

ArdWrknTrk

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

No, not really.

I always put #1 at about 1:00 per all the diagrams.

But if you slipped the dizzy on and did not get it right (or account for the helix of the gear, as it drops) you can always move all the wires over one post clockwise to get within the adjustment before the advance or connector hit something.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

grumpin

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

I would make sure the #1 piston is TDC, on the compression stroke, physically by feeling compression and with a pencil or something in the spark plug hole and per the TDC marker on the balancer. Then make sure it points at number 1 on the dizzy cap. If not I would reset the dizzy so it did.

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

85lebaront2

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

In reply to this post by reamer

Do you still have the catalytic converter installed? The stink makes me suspect you do. If you can get it loose, take the converter off and see how it runs without it. My so had a 1986 F150 302 EFI and his converter was completely stopped up, badly enough it would not stay in OD on the highway and had no power. Since he lives in WV and no emission inspections, a piece of 1/2" water pipe "fell" through it. Night and day difference!

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

ArdWrknTrk

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

This post was updated on .

Bill, I think I suggested this on page one.

Edit: of the OTHER thread...

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I would definitely give a look for a clogged exhaust.
You have all the symptoms.

Just for giggles, unbolt the front of the muffler (or Cat if you have one)
and take it for a spin.

15" Hg is pointing at a clog too.
Stock should have 20+, and it takes a pretty healthy cam to put you at 15.

It's very difficult to follow, or diagnose, when a new thread is started every 20 minutes, for one ongoing problem, but that's the way Ron seems to like it, so I'll be right back......

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

This post was updated on .

Yep!
Here it is: http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Hmmm-loss-of-power-won-t-hold-speed-td33697.html

There's also another thread about finding a vacuum leak in the speed control, when I mentioned that 15"Hg was way too low for a stock cam with a new timing set.

But we can disregard that diversion.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

Since Ron likes to play "let's start a new thread, because I didn't get the answer I wanted" then I think I will just ignore his posts from here on.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

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