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My timing chain adventure begins..

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reamer

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

NAPA part 600-5225
Made in CHI-NAH....

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

ArdWrknTrk

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

I look that number up in my NAPA app and it shows as a Dorman part weighing 8.18#

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

Amazon says the Dorman 694024 number weighs 4.8#, so something is going on.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Steve83

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Banned User

Amazon's weights & dimensions are notoriously wrong.

reamer

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Just concerned if 1 extra pound from the stock one matters....

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

Steve83

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Banned User

Only if it's off-balance.

85lebaront2

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

In reply to this post by Steve83

Steve, here is my roughly 16 year old steel cam gear set on my 460. This was a pre-1972 straight up set (which no one seems to carry any more).

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

ArdWrknTrk

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

Bill,
Just buy the EFI timing set.
It's double roller and straight up.

I can see why parts stores and even manufacturers aren't stocking a part obsolete by 47 years, when there's a 30 year old application that is almost duplicate.

It's roller, and not hyvo, but otherwise functionally identical.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

In reply to this post by reamer

Right - The total weight of the balancer doesn't matter. It is the imbalance that matters as it has to negate the imbalance of the engine. So both the balancer and the flywheel are out of balance to compensate.

I'll bet that yours is correctly balanced/imbalanced, but just weighs more than the other one.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

I did, but when I installed that one in 1995, I didn't know what the EFI 460s had, just knew that the pre-1972 set was straight up and could be bought with a steel cam gear.

Someone mentioned a "Tin Indian" earlier, Pontiac V8s had no provision for lubing the timing chain. I had a guy I worked with had a 1972 LeMans with a 350 Pontiac engine, about every 3 years I put a nice steel gear set in it, the last time, when I opened it up, the chain looked very dry, so I took a page from Oldsmobile's book, drilled a 1/16" hole in the lifter gallery plug on the right bank so it would spray oil at the slack side of the chain. Never put another one in it, 6 years later when the TH350 quit for the 4th time, engine still ran great.

BTW, loved their timing cover to oil pan joint, cut at a 45° angle so it was easy to seal.

For you guys who mentioned the 460 water pump plate, see what happens on a Pontiac if you leave the two plates and the inlet tubes out.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

I mentioned the Tin Indian. Didn't know their timing sets were dry. Makes no sense!

As for a 460 water pump plate, what happens when you leave one off on a serpentine system?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

I believe you already know the answer to that one.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

Yup. The serp bracket breaks. You nailed that one.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

So, it's just like adding another pound of flywheel?

I'm glad 460's have a separate hatchet weight and harmonic damper.
(well, except for the pre-'79 ones that have just a spacer because they're internally balanced)

How could the 460 water pump work without a backing plate?
Wouldn't it just churn coolant around in the cavities of the timing cover until it found its way into the sump?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

ArdWrknTrk wrote

So, it's just like adding another pound of flywheel?

Yep. Assuming the "imbalance" is correct the balancer or flywheel can be any weight.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

How could the 460 water pump work without a backing plate?
Wouldn't it just churn coolant around in the cavities of the timing cover until it found its way into the sump?

Huck's 460 had no backing plate. When we, you/Bill/I, were discussing the disassembly at the time I pointed out that the serp bracket was broken. Bill quickly suggested that I check for a backing plate on the water pump - and there was none.

But I'm told the engine ran fine, and there was no water in the coolant. So apparently the water pump works, but probably not very well.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Jim, it depends on the timing cover casting. If the hole that is behind the upper part of the backing plate and connects to the lifter area is not there, then it should work fairly well. I wouldn't want to chance it with a high heat load through.

I was looking to see if I had a diagram of the Pontiac water pump/timing cover but they were discontinued prior to 1982 where my AllData starts. I seem to remember now that it was a single plate and the tubes with seals. The lower hose connects to a cast inlet nipple on the left side of the timing cover right where the left side inlet tube goes and the bypass passage is in the top of that cavity. Without the backing plate the pump impeller just spins the water around with no way of even directing the flow.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

For those with curious minds, I'll take a pick of Huck's engine later this morn and post it so you can see how the backless-pump would work.

(Does "curious minds" mean that particular mind is a curious thing? Did it come from Abby Normal?)

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

At least you didn't say "inquiring minds".

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

Administrator

Sorry for hijacking the thread (that's an emoticon we need!), but .....

85lebaront2 wrote

At least you didn't say "inquiring minds".

I think that's a more apt description. Thanks, I'll start using that terminology.

Here's Huck's timing cover. And as you can see there's no place for the coolant to go but into the cooling system. Probably not as efficiently w/o a backing plate on the pump, but it would work.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

reamer

Re: My timing chain adventure begins..

The Comp-cam double roller set-up will be here tomorrow morning.

So the Build begins tomorrow morning, Leaving dounuts in the parking lot in the afternoon...

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

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