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Metal tag instead of certification label?

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Rembrant

Metal tag instead of certification label?

Gentlemen,

I was looking over a used truck today...and there are more than a few unanswered questions with it, but this is a new one on me. First thing I always do is look at the certification label. The label is missing on this truck, but there is a metal tag riveted to the cab with the number 20830 on it.

I don't believe I've ever run across one of these tags before. Does it indicate anything?

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

Gary Lewis

Re: Metal tag instead of certification label?

Administrator

I've never seen that. Did maybe someone assemble it from various parts? In Oklahoma if you change out a significant component that carries a VIN, like the cab, they issue a new state-specific VIN. And you are supposed to stamp it into the door frame right there.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Rembrant

Re: Metal tag instead of certification label?

Gary Lewis wrote

I've never seen that. Did maybe someone assemble it from various parts? In Oklahoma if you change out a significant component that carries a VIN, like the cab, they issue a new state-specific VIN. And you are supposed to stamp it into the door frame right there.

Gary,

It has definitely been assembled (or reassembled) using various parts, yes. I'm not sure if the cab has been changed, but it certainly could have been. There are no such laws here that a vehicle must be re-tagged with any mods...not that I'm aware of anyway. The VIN on the dash is not visible, so I don't know what's up with that either. The VIN checks out OK on the title, but I think so many parts have been changed on the truck that it's hard to figure out exactly what is supposed to be there.

I don't think there are any legal issues with the truck in any way, it's just that it has been rebuilt a few times in the almost 4 decades since it was built.

Have a look at the picture below...there is a black border in the windshield that is covering the VIN notch in the dash. I assume this is a windshield from a later model truck?

Gary Lewis

Re: Metal tag instead of certification label?

Administrator

Yes, that's a later model windshield. I allowed one of those to be installed on the '82 I sold, and ran into grief trying to prove it was the right VIN. In future I'll insist they get a windshield w/o the black band, or that they remove the band before installing the windshield.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rembrant

Re: Metal tag instead of certification label?

Thanks Gary,

It's starting to make sense. The guy that has the truck has only had it a short time, so he didn't really know much about the history of it. I'm just trying to piece a few things together to see if I want to take a chance on the old thing.

With no certification label, a Marti report is about the only way to determine how the truck left the assembly line.

Rembrant

Re: Metal tag instead of certification label?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary,

Couple more questions...

On a 1981 that left the factory as an automatic transmission truck, was there still a hole for the manual trans clutch linkage? Did Ford cut the hole in all the cabs and just plug it in the auto trans equipped trucks, or did the hole only get cut if the truck had a manual trans?

And, also in 1981, would an auto trans truck have had the little vacuum tree/manifold thingy on the firewall? Or was that only for a specific auto trans?

Gary Lewis

Re: Metal tag instead of certification label?

Administrator

Yes on the hole for the clutch. It had a plug if an auto.

On the vacuum manifold, that was there on trucks with several vacuum accessories. I don't know how many you had to have to get the manifold, but things like auto tranny and the fancier HVAC system contributed to the count.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Steve83

Re: Metal tag instead of certification label?

Banned User

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

...remove the band before installing the windshield.

Impossible - it's added while the w/s is still red-hot. Attempting to remove it would likely shatter the glass.

But it's relatively easy to pull the dash pad, and then snake a borescope up there. Or a tiny mirror. Even a bright light might make it readable as a reflection off the inside of the glass.

Gary Lewis

Re: Metal tag instead of certification label?

Administrator

The inspection office in Kansas where my buyer took the truck was very accommodating. The buyer is a friend of my brother's and got him involved. Since it is a small town the inspector allowed my brother to pull the dash pad and then with a mirror and flashlight they were able to see the VIN.

But, I doubt half of the inspectors out there would have been willing to do that. So there has to be a windshield that won't cover the VIN. Somewhere.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

grumpin

Re: Metal tag instead of certification label?

I like the door striker fix!

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

85lebaront2

Re: Metal tag instead of certification label?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

The problem comes, as with many aftermarket items, demand drives availability. 1980-1986 = 7 years, 1987-1997 = 11 years, so Safelite among others decided "windshield is the same size, let's just carry the later one". Guy I worked with had an 86 he was fixing up to sell, he took it to have a windshield replaced, they put a 1987-97 windshield in, he took it back and made them get the correct one and replace it.

I ran into the same thing on my 1971 Colony Park, it would go through a tailpipe in about 2 years, since it was a 429 it took a 2 1/4" tailpipe, Goerlichs, one of the major suppliers, decided oh, Ford wagon, 1969-1972, we sell more 1 7/8" tailpipes than 2 or 2 1/4", so we will just only supply that in the future. A 429 is strangled with a single 2 1/4" tailpipe, I can't imagine how it would run with a 1 7/8" pipe. Or trying to convince Sears that a group 24F battery was not big enough to use since it called for a group 27F with 429 and A/C. All they carried was a 24F, and I told them to be ready to provide road service to get it started. When you opened the doors, I think there were enough interior lights for a Christmas tree, 30 min or so loading the car for a trip, try to start a cold 429, right, not happening.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Ford F834

Re: Metal tag instead of certification label?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Rembrant

I’ve seen a few like that in the junkyard and I concur that it is most likely the equivalent of a state assigned VIN for an “assembled” vehicle...

I can only speak for how things work in Arizona, but to get one of those you have to first title all donors as “salvage”. Then you apply for a state VIN, and the title status is “restored salvage” or similar. As if that isn’t undesirable enough, you can’t really register something like that where there is any kind of emissions testing, and the expensive level III inspection that it must pass is only good in the state that gives you the VIN. If you go to another state it must pass their top tier inspection and requirements.

To me this hassle would only be worth it for a very unusual hand made car, not just a cab swap or some such. Check in your area regarding the titling and registration. It may not make much difference to you, but keep in mind it may be hard to re sell, and I wouldn’t invest much labor or parts into a truck like that. Unless it’s truly dirt cheap I’d give it a pass.

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

Rembrant

Re: Metal tag instead of certification label?

Ford F834 wrote

Check in your area regarding the titling and registration. It may not make much difference to you, but keep in mind it may be hard to re sell, and I wouldn’t invest much labor or parts into a truck like that. Unless it’s truly dirt cheap I’d give it a pass.

Hey Jon,

It's just another clunker for a project. It has a clear title, so there's no issue with transfer or registering it, and there are no issues with emissions on vehicles here. We do have to replace catalytic converters these days, but that only refers to vehicles that are OBDII or newer.

I'm going to sleep on it anyway. It's not a vehicle that I'd ever make any money on, it would just be something else to play with;). This one hits a couple of the check boxes that I've been wanting, so we'll see. But I do agree, I wouldn't sink a bunch of money into it or anything. This old girl has had some major surgery in the past, and that does keep the resale value low.

Ford F834

Re: Metal tag instead of certification label?

Administrator

It may be perfectly fine for your purposes... I just wanted to relay what I found out about that stuff in my area. Once it’s done it does not really matter for the owner/user. I have been extra paranoid about that kind of thing knowing that relocation was in my future. Now that I have bought a place and don’t intend to move, my perspective is different.