MSD Timing Control

Hey folks,

As I continue trying to check off the list of things I don't understand about this old Ford, Ive got a question about my MSD control box.
Here's the PDF on it:
https://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/100/121/121-8680.pdf

Here is the one brief paragraph on setting the timing:
"After installation, it is recommended to check the timing. Before starting the vehicle, turn the Control
Knob to the full 15° mark. This is the stock timing setting. As the Knob is turned counterclockwise, the
timing retards. As detonation occurs, slow(l)y retard the timing until the “pinging” noise is not audible.
Adjust the timing as driving conditions change."

I have mine usually set around the 7 degree mark and I will retard it slightly to 6 or so when driving on the highway 60ish mph. Should I be able to set it at 15 and do as the instructions say? Id like to know where it actually runs best but I try not to start pushing buttons and turning knobs I know very little about. 15 advanced seems a little far to start off with.
Im not usually noticing much pinging except at high speeds.
What about that last sentence about adjusting it to driving conditions? To me, with this level of technology, I feel like Im almost flying an airplane

Thanks
Sam

Sam,
They're telling you to start off at full advance and back off until pinging goes away.
That makes sense to me.

Driving conditions may change; winter/summer, sea level/10,000', different fuel, heavy trailer, etc...

So, after you stab the dizzy and turn the dial full clockwise, set the distributor to 15* as a baseline.
Then use the dial to adjust out knock.

Ok. I guess Im a little reticent to mess with it but Ill get over that.
Thanks

I certainly wouldn't want to be on the hairy edge of melting a piston or hammering my rod bearings to death all the time.
If you hear detonation at high engine speeds it's going to damage internal components.
Either way I wouldn't drive at high rpms without fixing that.

These ignitions were intended to allow a built engine to "idle" long enough on race fuel for the tree to turn green or the flag to drop.
But a race vehicle is different and at NO point after that is it going to drop below 3k and actually use the multiple spark feature.

An efficient combustion chamber -using modern gasoline- shouldn't need to be ignited multiple times.

I rarely drive over 55. I took an out of town trip yesterday where I got it sounding clean.  It just got me thinking about this topic which is why I posted.
Im still getting familiar with this engine so Im sorry this question isnt more detailed.
Im reading about people who have their total timing set 30-40 advance on the 460 forum.
In general, if it sounds good, Im not messing with it but I like to know how my machines work. I have a feeling this is going to take me a second to wrap my head around. Maybe its time to pull out the timing light this weekend.

I appreciate your help, Jim.


One of the hard things I come across on the internet, is like you were saying: a lot of these things come from race backgrounds which is 1 above my head and 2 beyond my current interest.
So when I look for info, its hard to find the basics for a person like me.
But the head mechanic at my job loves the 460 so I will keep picking his brains when I can.

For me, high rpms is 2.5k plus. I have seen 3k in this truck a handful of times.

Ok Sam,
All that's very helpful.

I think of high speed as 80+ and high rpms as somewhere north of 5,000.

In your situation the MSD will be constantly providing multiple sparks, but I doubt you'll ever get all the timing in.
My stock DSII distributor didn't reach full advance until 3,200 and even now I've got mine set to around 2,700.

It pulls clean and smoothly, though my RV cam runs out of juice by around 4-4,500
It will still reach 6,000 (though not quickly)

swampedout wrote

I rarely drive over 55. I took an out of town trip yesterday where I got it sounding clean.  It just got me thinking about this topic which is why I posted.
Im still getting familiar with this engine so Im sorry this question isnt more detailed.
Im reading about people who have their total timing set 30-40 advance on the 460 forum.
In general, if it sounds good, Im not messing with it but I like to know how my machines work. I have a feeling this is going to take me a second to wrap my head around. Maybe its time to pull out the timing light this weekend.

The 30-40advance is total timing not the base.
THE TIMING NUMBERS ARE JUST NUMBERS FOR THIS POST -your numbers WILL BE different.

Remember you start at a base of say 10* @ say 600 RPM, vacuum line off & plugged.

Now if you were to bring the RPM up to say 2500 you have mechanical timing added to the base and say it is now 20* advance.

Now hookup the vacuum line and bring the RPM backup to 2500 RPM and say you now have 30* advance.

This 30* is the total timing and with the knob set to 15* and checked with a light should read 30* advance with vacuum hooked up.
Now as you dial back the 15* knob it should remove timing from the total. Now I don't know if each line is 1* or more but lets say it 1* and you dial back to 10* that should remove 5* of total from the 30* bringing it to 25* advance.

Now does MSD want you to set total timing to 0* with knob set to its lowest setting (0*?), don't know
how you would do that and still have motor run? and then dial it up to 15* for a total?
Again I cant see how this would work as it would be to far retarded to even run.

I do have a MSD 6AL in my drag race car and only use the RPM limit the 6AL box has built in.
I have looked into the shift light plug in but that is as far as it has gone, just looked as I shift it be ear.
Dave ----

Dave,
My understanding of the instructions is that MSD wants you to dial ALL the adjustment advance in, set base timing at 15* and back off from there until you don't hear ping.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something?  

Every ignition I've ever installed we go too far, and back off.
MSD is just starting off too far and backing down from there...

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Dave,
My understanding of the instructions is that MSD wants you to dial ALL the adjustment advance in, set base timing at 15* and back off from there until you don't hear ping.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something?  

Every ignition I've ever installed we go too far, and back off.
MSD is just starting off too far and backing down from there...

You could be right on the starting point but if the box does not dial back on power up or when starting you could have starter kick back.
Then again if you have pinging at factory settings with todays crappy gas why bump it up even more?

If it is dialed in there should not be a need for this.
I only see this working if the car / truck is driven on the street & raced.
You could have it dialed back for street gas and then bump up for race gas at the track.
I was going to say for spray but there are other ways to back off timing when spraying a motor that MSD makes and plugs into the MSD main box like the 6AL.
Guess I just don't get the MSD box for use on the street?
Dave ----

FuzzFace2 wrote

Guess I just don't get the MSD box for use on the street?
Dave ----

Amen brother!
You're preaching to the choir.  

Ok this is making more sense now.
Whoever had this truck did some experimenting. Theres a holley box behind the seats, not plugged in but all wires are there for it. If anyone is interested in it, let me know.
Apparently one of the POs was a manager at an auto parts store so Im assuming he made good use out of his employee discount.

swampedout wrote

Ok this is making more sense now.
Whoever had this truck did some experimenting. Theres a holley box behind the seats, not plugged in but all wires are there for it. If anyone is interested in it, let me know.
Apparently one of the POs was a manager at an auto parts store so Im assuming he made good use out of his employee discount.

Holley box?
My Holley (tool) box would not fit behind the seat and has Holley carb parts like gaskets & jets for tuning carbs. I call it a pit box for racing.

So does this box have a number or name on it?
Picture of this box just so we know what it is.
Dave ----

Ill have to dig it up. Its on the shelf now. I tried looking for it online but didnt see it.

It looked like an older spark controller box like an MSD but said Holley on it. Maybe I got some rare equipment on my hands.

Excuse the dirt. It says "Pro-Jection" 2D.

Pro-Jection 2D
A 2V TBI of around 670 CFM.
P/N 502-20S