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Lubricant Resource?

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Gary Lewis

Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

Guys - Scott Ringler, whom several of you met last weekend, asked me a question about what lube his NP435 tranny, D44 and 9" diffs, and NP203 transfer case takes. He'd spent quite a bit of time Googling it and found quite a few hits about it on "the other forum", but then realized that most of what is out there is personal opinion, speculation, and guessing.

That got me to thinking about a resource we need - a table of what lubes the various things on these trucks take, to include the transmissions and differentials we frequently swap in. But, before setting about to create it, do any of you know where something like that is? Or a portion thereof?

I don't want to take some undocumented source's word for it as I'd like whatever we have to be "for sure". So I was thinking I'd pull info out of the owner's and shop manuals that I have as well as the catalogs. But, I know the NP203 wasn't used in our trucks so would have to find a manual for the few previous years where they were used.

Also, there are a few other bits of info that I think would be helpful for people. One is the comparison of "weights" for engine oils vs gear oils, as they aren't tested in the same way and the scales overlap. Another is a description of what the various ratings are, like GL-4 or GL-5 - and GL-5 doesn't truly superseded GL-4 in all applications. And I'm sure there are other things we might want to document as well.

However, I don't want to recreate anything. So if we can find good sources for things then we should use them. Given that, I'll kick some sources in here and hope y'all will do the same so we can start trying to use them to create a good resource.

The Difference between GL-4 and GL-5 Gear Oils by Richard Widman

Decent discussion of what GL-4 is vs GL-5 and why gear lube (GL) isn't necessarily what you want in your manual tranny.

Similar, but shorter, document by Daniel Shi on LinkedIn.

Redline MT-90 75W90 GL-4 Gear Oil page which says "Safe for brass synchros, as it lacks the reactive sulfurs found in most GL-5 oils that cause damage"

Anyway, what do you'se guys know of?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Ford F834

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

Gary, is this info in the shop manuals? Somewhere I've got a couple of glove box owner manuals that should at least give what Ford was recommending at the time. A chart of capacities would also be nice to have, if you run across such a thing.

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

Gary Lewis

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

I don’t know if it is in the shop manuals, but probably. But it will be in the owners manuals. I have an 81, 85, and probably 86 owners manual. However, that won’t include the NP203 for Scott. Anyway, we should be able to buikd a table - if one doesnt already exist.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

What years did the NP203 come in? Scott's is a 1978? I have owner's manual for 1983 F series and 1982 Bronco I believe.

Gary Lewis

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

Yes, Scott’s is that 1978 F150. But Pirate4x4 says the 203 was used from 1974 to 1979.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

I've started on the page: Specifications/Lubricant Specifications.

My process was to scan the 1985 manual's pages into a PDF and then OCR it so I had actual characters rather than pictures of characters. Then I created the table and copied/pasted the text into it. Hopefully I didn't make any errors. But, this way there are actual characters on the page, and Google can find those where it can't find "C6AZ-19580-E" in a picture. That way people searching for the info can find it.

And, now to start on adding the ZF5 info as well as the NP203 info. Then to move on to writing up what you'll actually find on the shelf as many of the Ford spec's have been superseded.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

Very impressive page Gary! Was all that in the shop manual?

Gary Lewis

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

That’s from the ‘85 owner’s manual. Haven’t looked at the shop manual yet, but it occurred to me that the info in the shop manual is all split up and it wasn’t likely to have as much info in one place as the owner’s manual.

Now to get some of the other bits sorted.....

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

Gary I will keep my eye out for earlier and later owner manuals. Bricknose era should be around in junkyard vehicles, 70's might be a little tougher.

Nothing Special

Re: Lubricant Resource?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

....Also, there are a few other bits of info that I think would be helpful for people. One is the comparison of "weights" for engine oils vs gear oils, as they aren't tested in the same way and the scales overlap. Another is a description of what the various ratings are, like GL-4 or GL-5 - and GL-5 doesn't truly superseded GL-4 in all applications. And I'm sure there are other things we might want to document as well....

This risks getting into the realm of opinions, but Ford started recommending lighter lubes as time went on. Typically that wasn't because the new engines (or transfer cases, or transmissions or whatever) needed lighter lube, or that the older parts needed heavier lube, but that it gave better mileage. So if the old recommendation was 10W-40 (or 90W gear lube) and the new recommendation is 5W-20 (or ATF), what should we use now?

Maybe that's a rabbit hole that's not worth exploring...

Bob
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
"Oswald": 1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
"Pluto": 1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
"the motorhome": 2015 E-450-based 28' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
"the Dodge": 2007 Dodge 2500, 6.7L Cummins

Gary Lewis

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to show that. I looked at the '81 manual in addition to the '85 today, but I didn't spot any differences. Anyway, I'll look again tomorrow.

Also, I was hoping for some lively discussion on here about lubricants. For instance, the bit about the ZF5 lube. If I recall correctly, Jim has some thoughts about that. How 'bout the rest of you?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

I posted on FTE my fill tag from the Zf5-s42 in my truck.
It came from a '89 plow truck that couldn't even be brought to the scrap yard in one piece.

It clearly says "use type H atf"
I flushed out most of the strawberry milkshake and filled it with Royal Purple synchromax.
This last time I put Mercon V and it seems OK but not great.

Zf used to have all the shop manuals and diagnostic bulletins on line but I can't seem to find them after they updated their site a few years back.
They listed a WIDE range of acceptable fluids depending mostly on climate.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

Jim - As shown on the Lubricant Specification page, that's what my ZF5 says as well. But I was curious what Type H is/was and did some research, which I wrote up on the Evolving Specifications tab.

Please take a look at that as see if you agree. What I'm hoping to do is to help us understand what we should really be using in our transmissions, differentials, transfer cases, etc. In other words, we have antiquated specs on one tab, but since that stuff is no longer available what should we use? Make sense?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

1989 F-series owner manual, includes the ZF-5 and E4OD

Gary Lewis

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

If those were a little higher quality I could convert them to PDF and OCR them. But, I could still just write the stuff down.

And, good idea to include the quantities. I need to do that on the other stuff.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

Gary, I just grabbed those shots real quick to capture the ZF and E4OD that some folks may be converting to. If you want actual scans for ocr I can do that, or if the whole manual would be useful I can mail it to you. There was another page on coolant capacities but I figured the 1985 manual would be more accurate for us. Anyway, there are a few goodies in it, including the fluid type and capacity for the D60 moonbeam front axle that might not be in the 1985 book...

Gary Lewis

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

I’m of three minds on how to present the information. I really want it to be definitive, not the opinions that so many other places have. So, I like having the actual page from the owner’s manual available. But, none of the Bullnose ones include the ZF. So, do we include the whole of the 89’s lubrication schedule? Or just add it to the ‘85 manual?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ctubutis

Re: Lubricant Resource?

I guess if it were me, I would include as much reasonable information from the 89 as I could, if only for contextual information.

Gary Lewis

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

Include it in what way is the question. Add it to the 1985 info? Include the whole 1989 lubricants section?

I guess what I’m thinking is to not say the table I have is directly from the 1985 manual, but to say it is compiled from several of Ford’s owner’s manuals. Then include links to download that portion of the appropriate manuals to prove it.

Does that make sense?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Lubricant Resource?

Administrator

Gary, I like your approach to documentation with scanned original pages available to back up the data. I do not think the entire 1989 manual would be of much benefit unless the scope of the website was widened to include other body styles. But I can see bullnose owners running ZF, E4OD, BW1356, or say a serpentine belt EFI engine from a 8th or 9th generation truck.

So a couple ideas on how to capture this would be to build a comprehensive table that includes the ZF etc., and for each line item include a button or link for "source". In most cases this would link straight to the applicable 1985 page, but for the ZF etc., it would link to the pertinent 1989 page.

A little more simple approach might be to present the 1985 table as it appears in the manual, with a link to the original scan. Then make a separate table as an appendix of common upgrades or "parts of interest to bullnose owners" and link just the relevant pages out of the 1989 manual.

Does the 1985 manual seem to capture all the possible transmissions, transfer cases and axles? Do we need any other manuals? I mentioned the D60 mono ocean that may or may not be in the 1985 manual, but were there more transfer case options earlier that might not be in the 1985 book? Especially regarding capacities? I will keep my eye out for more owners manuals on pre 1980 trucks...

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