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Little Joe too slow

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The Human Wrench

Little Joe too slow

Little Joe just ain't cuttin the mustard in the power dept. The 300 6cyl and 3.00:1 gears don't have enough power for trailer pulling. So, I have decided to do something I have always wanted to do and that is build a short wheelbase 3/4 ton pickup. Here is the plan; Regular cab short bed 3/4 ton axles, 460 4V, T-19 transmission with transfer case. I want to use an 85/86 cab but I am going to use 93-96 front clip and bed, mainly due to the availability of a decent bed. At this point I have most of these parts only needing a really decent cab. So here is my question. I have an 86 F-150 short bed frame I could put the springs and axles under but I also have an 89 3/4 ton frame with the axles that I could just shorten. I'm not a fan of shortening frames but I know it has been done a lot. Is the 1/2 ton frame the same, strength wise, as the 3/4 just shorter? I know how to get around all the title issues so that is an issue we don't need to discuss.

66gtk

Re: Little Joe too slow

Interesting question and I'm curious about doing possibly something similar. Did Ford ever make a standard cab, short box F250 4x4???

'83 F150 XL Shortbox California
302 (EEC-III), AOD, 3.55 - stock original drivetrain

Gary Lewis

Re: Little Joe too slow

Administrator

In reply to this post by The Human Wrench

Interesting questions. And, we have answers in the dealer facts books, of which I have only 3 on-line - 1981, '82, and '83. For the '83, which may be the most applicable to all the years, go here: Literature/1983 Literature/Dealer Facts Book and then go to the Axles, Frames, & Suspensions tab and scroll down to Page 11.

You'll see that the frames varied significantly depending on wheelbase/frame length, and which truck, meaning F150, 250, 250HD/350. (Yes, there are two different F250's, and they have different frames.)

One thing to notice is the section modulus, which is the amount of metal in the frame. Another is the lack of F250's with a 116.8" wheelbase, meaning there weren't any F250's or 350's with short beds.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

The Human Wrench

Re: Little Joe too slow

After looking at the dealer facts book it appears the frames aren't built out of the same materials. So, I got on the internet and checked out frame shortening and stretching and I believe shortening the 3/4 ton frame is the way to go. Stay tuned.

Gary Lewis

Re: Little Joe too slow

Administrator

I'm curious - what made you realize that the frames are made of different materials?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Little Joe too slow

Administrator

In reply to this post by The Human Wrench

Half ton frames are 1/8” thick. The 3/4 tons came in either 3/16” or 1/4” thick and the C channel is taller. The one-ton frames are 1/4” thick like the heavy F250’s. If you are primarily building this for trailer pulling, I wouldn’t see any issue with using a half ton frame. With the shorter bed it is difficult to physically fit as much weight in the bed anyway.

That said, F250/350 front 4x4 axles mount very differently than the half ton trucks. Unless you plan to use a reverse shackle kit to mount a mono beam D60 up front, chopping a frame is going to be far, far easier than all the fabrication to make the front of a coil spring frame look like a 4x4 leaf sprung frame.

I had a good friend of mine shorten my F350 crew cab frame and I highly recommend his technique. I need to write a build thread for it on this site, but for the time being you can read about it on my old FTE thread. Check post #7:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1451357-short-bed-4-door-diesel-project.html

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

The Human Wrench

Re: Little Joe too slow

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary, reading the information you presented got me to checking around. Especially the part about the frame modulus, I guess I should have said I found out they are different thickness. Also, yes the truck will mainly be just transportation and car trailer pulling so the half ton frame would have worked except that and I realized as Ford F834 mentioned the front springs are different. That is really what changed my mind. I would like to have used the factory short bed frame as opposed to cutting and welding one. There is really a lot of good info out there about frame alterations and a lot of it is about heat treated heavy duty truck frames which I assume are different than a light duty truck frame but it is good information none the less
(high stress areas, crossmembers, attachments, where to cut, how to weld and brace and suspension). I know of several truck frames that have been cut and re welded so I'm not overly worried about it, just trying to avoid it.

Gary Lewis

Re: Little Joe too slow

Administrator

Yes, the front springs are very different. And the leaf springs are harsh, in my experience.

On the frame, a good welder won't overheat the metal, and I really doubt the frames on these trucks is heat-treated. But proper welding and reinforcing is imperative for safety.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile