Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

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Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

FuzzFace2
I have a few questions on kingpins, spindles & beams. I may know the answer but want to make sure.
Has to deal with 80-82 F100/F150 4x2 trucks with king pins. (Mine is an 81 F100)

I know there are 2 different size king pins and they seam to be based on power & non-power brakes.
Non-power brakes have the larger dia. pins

I know between power & non-power brakes the wheel bolt patterns are different.
power = 5x4.5,  non-power = 5x5

I know between power & non-power brakes rotors / hubs are different.

I know between power & non-power brakes the spindles are different because I tried to swap rotors / hubs and find this out.

Now what I am not sure on:
Are there 2 different beams because of the king pin size based on power / non-power brakes?

Any one know the OD of the king pin bushings for the 2 different pin sizes?
Or know the ID of the 2 different spindles where the bushing get pressed into?

What I am looking to do is use the small king pin kit, small king pin beams and the large king pin spindles so I can run the 5x5 wheels.
That is if the small pin bushings will fit / work in the large spindles so they can be mounted on the small pin beams.

Anyone know?
Dave ----
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Dave - Are these forged or stamped beams?  I'm not sure I need to know that, but it looks like I will.  Anyway, I'm researching it........  
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

FuzzFace2
Gary Lewis wrote
Dave - Are these forged or stamped beams?  I'm not sure I need to know that, but it looks like I will.  Anyway, I'm researching it........  
They are forged and sorry for not saying that.
And thank you for looking this up for me but no rush just something I am thinking of.
Dave ----
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Here's what I am seeing.  What I now need to do is go to the parts list, meaning 30.1A, B, D, E, or J and look at the components.  But I need to know what you have, so can you tell me which row(s) you have.  Then I can look.



Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

FuzzFace2
Both trucks are 1981 F100
Forged axle beam
1 is power brakes the other is not.

I would like to mount the non-power brake large pin spindles on the power brake small pin beams using the small pins if the bushing will press into the large spindles.
If someone had both pin kit and could measure the OD of the bushings I think that would let us know if it would work.
Dave - - - -
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Dave - If you have both spindles can't you measure their ID's to find the OD of the bushings?  

In any event, with the following research, you are looking for the OD of bushings D5UZ 3110-A and -B.

From the following, forged axles get parts lists of 30.1A, B, or J.  But "J" is for a 1983 or later truck, which will have ball joints.





And to prove that 1983's have ball joints, see below where it says 30.1 A & B don't require a Joint Assy (Spindle Arm), which is a ball joint.  And, farther down it shows that "J" does get a ball joint.

Ok, then look at Bushing and Pin Kit (Spindle) and you'll see that "A", which has power brakes, gets pin kit D5UZ 3111-A, and the "B" axles, which have manual brakes, take pin kit E0TZ 3111-A.





And, here are the contents of those two kits, including the bushing part #'s:

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

1986F150Six
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Re: Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

Gary Lewis
Administrator
They were probably used in those applications.  But were also used in lots more applications as well.

However, notice that the wall thicknesses don't appear to be all that different.  That suggests that their OD's are different as their ID's certainly are.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

FuzzFace2
The thing is I don't have the proper device to muasure with and with the new bushing in the 1 set I don't know if I would be able to measure them right.
I will look over the large pin spindles to see if I can get a measurement. Don't want to take the small pin set apart if I don't have to.

I have seen I think the small pins used on older trucks when checking auto zone.

I will let you know what I find when I get to this part of the project.
Thanks
Dave - - - -
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Ok.  We can pick this up again then.  I think I left enough tracks that I can get back to where I was.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

FuzzFace2
Ok time to pick it up again
First I have to say the measurements are vary ruff as my caliper batt was dead and dog foster watching so could not run out and pick one up.

First thing I did was pull 1 of the small pin caps that has the grease fitting in it off the truck and tried it on the large pin spindles ........ it was too small and fell right in to the opening.
That was not a good sign for what I was thinking.

Cleaned some grease from the small pin and took measurement the best I could of the OD of the bushing and came up with 9/16", pin size is 0.862 (rare parts king pin set auto zone)
On the large pin bushing OD I came up with 1-3/16", pin size is 1.053 (rare parts king pin set auto zone)

That last thing would be Kingpin Length (in): Small pin 6.6875  large pin 6.9375 (rare parts king pin set auto zone) and at .25 difference I think that may be an issue?

So the way I see it if you want to use the DJM small pin drop beams on a large king pin truck you would need to find a bushing with and OD of 1-3/16" or little larger and turned down to fit the large pin spindles and an ID of 0.862 or smaller and reamed to fit the small pins.
How hard do you think that would be?
Oh and turn down a large pin to the small pin size because of the length and hope the pin lock bolt lines up right.
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

Gary Lewis
Administrator
What material are the bushing made of?  Probably something soft, so turning them down wouldn't be too hard.  You'd have to have a tapered shaft for the bushing to be pressed onto, lightly, and then run that shaft between centers on the lathe.  Once the bushing OD is turned down you'd press it off and chuck it in the lathe to bore it out to the correct OD.

But, you have to find the right bushing material and I have no idea what that is.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

85lebaront2
Every king pin bushing I have seen except the polyethylene ones are steel shells with a bronze insert and have to be reamed to size after installation.
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

FuzzFace2
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
They look to be some type of brass mix I am guessing from the color, gold.
When the bushings are pressed into the spindles the ID will close up and why they need to be reamed even if you have the right size parts for the beams & spindles.

Now turning down of the pin might be tuff as it maybe harden but would not know till a machine shop got a hold of it.

Might be easier to ask DJM to make large pin drop beams!

Thanks for the help
Dave ----
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Kingpins, spindles & beams...Oh my!

FuzzFace2
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
85lebaront2 wrote
Every king pin bushing I have seen except the polyethylene ones are steel shells with a bronze insert and have to be reamed to size after installation.
Bronze not brass what was I thinking
My large pin kit I don't remember seeing a steel shell all bronze.
Then again I opened the box gave a quick look over and then a few days later handed everything off to the machine shop.
It also around the holidays so who knows?
Dave ----
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100