Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

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Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

CountryBumkin
I haven't posted in a while - as I haven't been doing anything with my rig - until now.
But the weather is cool now (in FL) and I'm starting my next mod project.

So this week I'm installing a MSD Atomic EFI system. I 'm going with the MSD because it also ties into my MSD distributor and 6AL to "control timing". So I'm moving the old girl up to a modern fueling system.

This is a pretty easy project (according the instructions), just remove carb and install TBI in its place, run new fuel lines, and hook up a couple of wires.

Well, there's always a little more to it.
I had to pull left header off and weld an O2 bung to it (getting headers on/off is always a pain).
The Atomic TBI doesnt have a C6 kickdown linage, so I had to get the Lokar C6 transmission kick-down setup. With that installed my factory throttle cable/bracket had to be ditched but I was able to modify the Lokar bracket to work for throttle cable.
My original metal oil pan dipstick tube needed to be replaced. I bought a Ford OEM dipstick tube (for 460 pan with push-in tube) but couldn't get the fit right due to header pipes, and gently bending it caused the stick to not want to go in. So I ended up getting the Lokar flexible dipstick tube (coming today).
Replaced the plugs and wires - now need to pull distributor and lock out the mechanical advance.
Replacing my Flowmaster muffler (had a Hooker SuperComp muffler sitting in my garage for two years now, waiting to be installed (still have to figure out how to hang it)

So I'm back with a new project. Seems like every 5 years or so I spend $1,000 on the truck. But that's still cheaper than buying a new truck.

- Mike
-Mike
1982 F250 4x4 XLT Lariat, 460cid, 9.5:1, TFS 290 Street Port heads, Crane Hyd. Roller cam (278/286 adv.,216/224 @.050, .560"/.586" lift), Edelbrock Performer 460 intake, MSD Atomic TBI fuel injection, MSD 6AL ignition, MSD Billet distrib., Hedman headers, NOS Cheater system, 4" Suspension lift, 3" body lift, 4.56 gearing, 17x12.5Rx37 tires MT Baja ATZ-P3.
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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Welcome back, Mike!  That's a cool project.  Do you have a baseline for MPG, if not acceleration, to compare with the results you get with the EFI?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

LARIAT 85
In reply to this post by CountryBumkin
Make sure you learn how to repair your truck yourself, because no one is going to want to work on a vehicle with an aftermarket EFI system.

Where do you get replacement parts for it?
Lucille:  1985 Ford F150 XLT Lariat

*Colors:  Dark Canyon Red exterior, Canyon Red interior
*Engine: 5.0, CompCams 31-230-3, "Thumper" E7 heads, Edelbrock Performer intake, Autolite 4100 carburetor, DuraSpark II ignition, Thorley Tri-Y headers, Flowmaster dual exhaust, H-pipe.
*Drivetrain:  AOD transmission, 3.55 gears, 2wd.



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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

Ray Cecil
In reply to this post by CountryBumkin
Hey Mike. Welcome back. Fun project. I've wanted to mess around with Fitech on a 300. But I never can make up my mind. Please keep us updated on the performance. What are your goals with this? Better tuning and easier starts I would imagine....
1988 F250 Supercab Longbed 7.3 IDI, C6, 1356, GEARVENDORS, 4.10 Sterling with autolocker

1986 F150 302, C6, 9" 2.75, Wood Flatbed


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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

Ray Cecil
In reply to this post by LARIAT 85
LARIAT 85 wrote
Make sure you learn how to repair your truck yourself, because no one is going to want to work on a vehicle with an aftermarket EFI system.

Where do you get replacement parts for it?
Plenty of people will work on a truck with aftermarket EFI. You can get parts for MSD Atomic EFI from MSD through any of the online vendors like Summit and Jegs.
1988 F250 Supercab Longbed 7.3 IDI, C6, 1356, GEARVENDORS, 4.10 Sterling with autolocker

1986 F150 302, C6, 9" 2.75, Wood Flatbed


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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

LARIAT 85
Ray Cecil wrote
You can get parts for MSD Atomic EFI from MSD through any of the online vendors like Summit and Jegs.
Of course.  But what happens when you are on the road someplace and you need a replacement part?  That is usually when this sort of thing happens.
Lucille:  1985 Ford F150 XLT Lariat

*Colors:  Dark Canyon Red exterior, Canyon Red interior
*Engine: 5.0, CompCams 31-230-3, "Thumper" E7 heads, Edelbrock Performer intake, Autolite 4100 carburetor, DuraSpark II ignition, Thorley Tri-Y headers, Flowmaster dual exhaust, H-pipe.
*Drivetrain:  AOD transmission, 3.55 gears, 2wd.



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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

Ray Cecil
Rick, I see what you mean. Yeah, I think aftermarket EFI is just as reliable if not more reliable than carbs. Its on par with factory efi these days. A lot of people run MSD, Holley and Fitech EFI systems now.
1988 F250 Supercab Longbed 7.3 IDI, C6, 1356, GEARVENDORS, 4.10 Sterling with autolocker

1986 F150 302, C6, 9" 2.75, Wood Flatbed


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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

CountryBumkin
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
I don't have a good way to baseline now - other than I know I get 6.5 mpg now. I usually just measure the length of the burn out marks to gauge performance.

If you look at my build specs in my signature line you can see this engine is far from stock. I'm not worried about finding parts or finding someone to work on it (ps. no one has touched or worked on this truck, except me, since it went out of warranty in '85 :))

The main problem I've been dealing with over the years is getting a good tune on the carb. I'm usually too rich at idle or too lean at cruise, and there are other drive-ability and rough idle issues. I've spent too much time jetting, changing air bleeds, setting mixture screws, and taking the carbs apart - so I wanted to try something else.

These aftermarket EFI systems do what they call "self tuning". They use the O2 sensor, MAP sensor, TPS, and coolant sensor to adjust the AF ratio. You just program in some base line settings (idle speed desired, what AF you want at idle, cruise, WOT, your timing advance curve, some engine info (size, cam duration, etc.) and the fuel mapping adjusts.

I should have all my last parts in by this weekend so I'll have her running then, and take a couple of photos.

-Mike
1982 F250 4x4 XLT Lariat, 460cid, 9.5:1, TFS 290 Street Port heads, Crane Hyd. Roller cam (278/286 adv.,216/224 @.050, .560"/.586" lift), Edelbrock Performer 460 intake, MSD Atomic TBI fuel injection, MSD 6AL ignition, MSD Billet distrib., Hedman headers, NOS Cheater system, 4" Suspension lift, 3" body lift, 4.56 gearing, 17x12.5Rx37 tires MT Baja ATZ-P3.
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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Well, I guess 6.5 MPG is part of a baseline.  And how long are the burnout marks?  

Yes, the new EFI systems appear to do a very good job of self tuning.  So I think this should solve your driveability problems.  Hope you'll take lots of pics along the way.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

Rembrant
Gary Lewis wrote
Yes, the new EFI systems appear to do a very good job of self tuning.  So I think this should solve your driveability problems.  Hope you'll take lots of pics along the way.  
I've spent quite a bit of time with EFI self-tuners on motorcycles, and they are outstanding in how well they tune.

I understand where Rick is coming from...you're probably on your own with it, but at least you can see what it's doing. In my area, I don't think it would be very easy to find somebody to work on anything pre-OBDII.

I've been lusting after one of these EFI systems, but they aren't cheap. I do like the Atomic kit though as it tied into the distributor and even has a fake vacuum advance function.

I'm subscribing to see how this goes. Welcome aboard new guy!
1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

LARIAT 85
I must be extremely lucky or something, because my truck with a carburetor runs as good as any vehicle I have ever had with EFI. Lucille is my first and only vehicle with a carburetor, and frankly - other than that first initial cold start that requires setting the choke - I can't tell the difference between it and a vehicle with EFI.  My truck starts right up with a single pump, and I can drive it away immediately under all weather conditions.  In fact, Lucille actually starts up *faster* than any fuel-injected vehicle I have ever owned. Seriously. (Unless, of course, it sits for an extended period of time.) It has no hesitations or flat spots, and I can get close to 20 MPG.  A carburetor requires no wires or electronics of any kind, and there are no sensors to fail.  I haven't had to re-tune it or mess with mine in years.  

I have nothing against EFI, but I just don't understand why so many people feel the need to replace their carburetor with an expensive fuel-injection system.  
Lucille:  1985 Ford F150 XLT Lariat

*Colors:  Dark Canyon Red exterior, Canyon Red interior
*Engine: 5.0, CompCams 31-230-3, "Thumper" E7 heads, Edelbrock Performer intake, Autolite 4100 carburetor, DuraSpark II ignition, Thorley Tri-Y headers, Flowmaster dual exhaust, H-pipe.
*Drivetrain:  AOD transmission, 3.55 gears, 2wd.



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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I'm in the fuel injection camp, in spite of having cut my teeth on carbs.  And that's for two reasons:

First, I'm 72.5 and won't be able to work on the trucks in a couple of decades or so.  And I want them to continue working when the kids get them.  So I'm going with Ford's EEC-V EFI, which has OBD-II, to ensure that mechanics/technicians can plug their scanners in and find the problem.

Second, on Big Blue I want to drive the wheels off of him, including up to 8 or 9,000 feet above sea level.  And I don't want to have to play with jetting while doing that.  EFI is the only thing that will do that and have the engine run well at all altitudes.

Having said that, my son and I were talking about the Super Bee the other day and it may wind up being a true Six Pack:  (Yes, I know what brand those carbs are.)

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

Ray Cecil
Fuel injection is very very reliable. Much easier to tune for power adders too. There isnt a huge difference in peak power and torque with a properly tuned carb vs efi on the same engine. The big advantages Gary already covered.

Im with Rick though on the simplicity of a carb. But not everyone wants to fiddle with jetting, chokes, heat risers and such.
1988 F250 Supercab Longbed 7.3 IDI, C6, 1356, GEARVENDORS, 4.10 Sterling with autolocker

1986 F150 302, C6, 9" 2.75, Wood Flatbed


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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

grumpin
I don’t think you need to re jet for 8-9000 ft elevation unless you’re going to stay there.

I re jetted my Holley for 4100 ft because I live at that altitude.

We were going up to the summit of Mt. St. Helens salvaging timber after the eruption with carbureted trucks.

Reminds me, I had a newer bullnose 4x4 company truck, with a lift in the bed so we could get up and work on the Skycrane.
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona
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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

Ray Cecil
grumpin wrote
I don’t think you need to re jet for 8-9000 ft elevation unless you’re going to stay there.

I re jetted my Holley for 4100 ft because I live at that altitude.

We were going up to the summit of Mt. St. Helens salvaging timber after the eruption with carbureted trucks.

Reminds me, I had a newer bullnose 4x4 company truck, with a lift in the bed so we could get up and work on the Skycrane.
I think the argument for carb vs efi is pretty well argued online. I think there are a lot of dyno tests that prove that self learning EFI does create an engine that produces less harmful emissions at any rpm, and better fuel economy. If carbs were better than EFI at emissions and mpg, they would be standard on modern vehicles. They aren't, so there is good reason to trust carbs are less efficient with emissions and mpg.

EFI is more flexible for altitude changes. EFI does have a performance edge, but only slightly vs a properly tuned carb. The performance edge is basically marginal. The biggest CON for EFI is the price point, and some think the complexity. However, companies like Fitech are producing EFI kits that are very competitively priced, and easy to install. Fitech has forced Holley and MSD to have more competitive pricing on their EFI systems. Price will come down as more people switch.

It all boils down to what the individual prefers, and the purpose of the vehicle. I COMPLETELY understand the simplicity of a carb. But I also like the idea of the modern technology inside of EFI.
1988 F250 Supercab Longbed 7.3 IDI, C6, 1356, GEARVENDORS, 4.10 Sterling with autolocker

1986 F150 302, C6, 9" 2.75, Wood Flatbed


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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

CountryBumkin
Just waiting on some fittings from Summit to get the pressure regulator installed. I'm running the return fuel line to the OEM fuel sending unit (where I will drill a hole in the top and install a bung). I already have a 8AN bung fitting welded to my tank at the rear/bottom so the feed hose connection is simple.

The high-pressure fuel pump will be mounted on the frame at the rear of the fuel tank area. It's best to mount it in the tank if possible, but that doesn't work for me, so I'll have it located about a foot from the back of tank and as low as possible.

This weekend I'll finish up the wiring and do the first startup. I don't have my exhaust hangers yet, so the first start will be on open headers.

BTW, I got the Lokar dipstick yesterday. It's a nice piece. It is about 4 inches shorter than the factory dipstick so installed it is about an inch higher the header tube - so I expect the knob at the top will get hot. I guess I wont be checking my oil level after a long drive without putting on some Kevlar gloves first.

-Mike
1982 F250 4x4 XLT Lariat, 460cid, 9.5:1, TFS 290 Street Port heads, Crane Hyd. Roller cam (278/286 adv.,216/224 @.050, .560"/.586" lift), Edelbrock Performer 460 intake, MSD Atomic TBI fuel injection, MSD 6AL ignition, MSD Billet distrib., Hedman headers, NOS Cheater system, 4" Suspension lift, 3" body lift, 4.56 gearing, 17x12.5Rx37 tires MT Baja ATZ-P3.
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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Looking good, Mike.  

Does the MSD unit have a vacuum connection?  And then it provides the ignition advance?  Does the distributor still have centrifugal advance in it?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

CountryBumkin
You can setup the MSD to use your distributor to do the timing (you just leave the distributor set up as you would with a carb) or you can have the MSD control the timing. The MSD TBI has manifold and ported vacuum ports if you need them.

If you have MSD Atomic control timing, you have to "lock out" the distributor so it can not advance (the weights and springs are removed) and vacuum advance can is not used. The two-wire connector from the distributor (which would normally go to the MSD 6AL box) then gets connected to the MSD TBI/controller. You set the base timing, advance, and vacuum advance timing, you want using the Atomic handheld programmer.



-Mike
1982 F250 4x4 XLT Lariat, 460cid, 9.5:1, TFS 290 Street Port heads, Crane Hyd. Roller cam (278/286 adv.,216/224 @.050, .560"/.586" lift), Edelbrock Performer 460 intake, MSD Atomic TBI fuel injection, MSD 6AL ignition, MSD Billet distrib., Hedman headers, NOS Cheater system, 4" Suspension lift, 3" body lift, 4.56 gearing, 17x12.5Rx37 tires MT Baja ATZ-P3.
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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

Gary Lewis
Administrator
That's a nice and simple system.  I like it.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

Ray Cecil
Gary Lewis wrote
That's a nice and simple system.  I like it.  
Yes it is. I like it very much. Set base timing on a locked out distributor, and forget it. Let the pooter do the tinkin'
1988 F250 Supercab Longbed 7.3 IDI, C6, 1356, GEARVENDORS, 4.10 Sterling with autolocker

1986 F150 302, C6, 9" 2.75, Wood Flatbed


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