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Hydroboost brake conversion

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ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

Wow, that's cheap core!

I might have to look into it for Lil' Red.
I passed the 450 parts on to Gary because he seemed on a mission to do hydroboost, and I have no time to keep her down.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

I only see ONE hydroboost unit on the linked page, and it's $231.95 for sending your existing unit in and waiting for it to return. ?????

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ford F834

At least the picture shows it to be complete.

The master parts catalog says that a 1987 and later F350 w/a diesel takes booster E8TZ 2005-A, which should be the hydroboost. And I found that part number new at Ford Parts Giant for $171.76. But I'm not 100% sure that's the

Also, the MPC says that vehicle takes master cylinder E7TZ 2140-F or E7TZ 2004-B, and I don't see those used on anything prior to 1987, and then only on F250's w/a GVWR of 7000 lbs, or F350's and above.

So, while "HD" might be above 8500 lbs, for brakes Ford had a different limit as of 1987.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Jim - A bit above those listings there's one for this AC Delco: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2959452&cc=1126550&jsn=10&jsn=10

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I guess the link to RA opened to vacuum boosters for me?

Gary Lewis wrote

The MPC says that vehicle takes master cylinder E7TZ 2140-F or E7TZ 2004-B, and I don't see those used on anything prior to 1987, and then only on F250's w/a GVWR of 7000 lbs, or F350's and above.

So, while "HD" might be above 8500 lbs, for brakes Ford had a different limit as of 1987.

Ford does not determine what is a 'heavy duty vehicle', the EPA does.

If you read the underhood calibration sticker, where it says "this heavy duty vehicle is allowed to be non-compliant under federal statute xyz...."
Or something like that.

You would understand what is being questioned here.
And it has NOTHING to do with brakes.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

I think there are several uses of the term "heavy duty". One is the DOT use of the term which determines what requirements a vehicle has to adhere to. But there's the colloquial use, and in this case I'm referring to the larger or smaller brakes and/or boosters. Perhaps I should say "big brakes" and "small brakes"?

And up until 1986 Ford appears to have made the delineation between vehicles with "small brakes" and those with "large brakes" at 8500 #'s. But as of 1987 the break (for brakes

) was 7000 #'s.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

Where on that Ford page does it say "heavy duty brakes"?

With the advent of the Bricknose era, Ford decided that four piston calipers belonged on anything over 7k gvw.
It seems (to me) more of a CYA move than anything else.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

It doesn't say "heavy duty". That's just the term I've been using. It seems easier than "big brakes" and "small brakes". Or "under 8500# brakes".

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

Just my pedantry getting the better of me.

When you say "Heavy Duty" wrt pickup trucks, it means a very specific thing to me (and many others)

I'm not asking you to -not- use the term, but please qualify your context.

Because 7k gvw is not "Heavy Duty" by anyone else's standard.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Ford F834

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary, I see that Ford did change the F350 vacuum booster after 1986. I will have to measure the studs, but I’m betting the cast iron master on Jan’s truck did match up to the hydroboost unit. Maybe you could measure the one on Big Blue since it is likely the same booster?

I could be all wet... but I thought “HD” was Ford’s distinction for the heavy 3/4 ton with the full float rear axle and dual piston front brakes (vs. the semi float axle trucks that were usually 6800 GVWR). I think it was even part of the badging on 9th generation F250’s at some point...

I know RockAuto isn’t the ultimate information source, but I was surprised to see the hydroboost in Blacktop’s link under 1990 F350. I have always pulled it up under 1988-1997 “F-Superduty” (F450).

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

I'm not surprised them see it listed for F-350.
Certainly any F-350 diesel C&C, incomplete utility or ambulance chassis would have hydroboost.

Wrt HD, yes Ford's generally accepted nomenclature is defined by having a full floating rear.
The D60, and the Sterling 10.25" we're not available under 8,500# configuration during the '80-'86 (bullnose) era.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ford F834

Well, the plot thickens.

The F450 master fits on Big Blue's vacuum booster while the master from Huck, the 1990 F250 w/an 8600# GVWR, doesn't. In fact, the master cylinder from Huck bolts up to the vacuum booster off Dad's truck.

So, it looks to me that up through 1986, inclusive, the master cylinders for trucks up to 8500#'s had the narrow bolt spacing and trucks above that had the wide spacing. But some time, probably in '87, the break point changed such that even up to and including F350's had the narrow spacing. I say the latter because a 1987 through at least '89 F250 over 7000 GVW takes the same booster as all '87 through '89 F350's: E8TZ 2005-A or E8TZ 2005-D. You can see that here: Driveline/Brakes.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

kramttocs

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Certainly any F-350 diesel C&C, incomplete utility or ambulance chassis would have hydroboost.

I recently changed the one in our 95 C&C diesel (turbo) and it wasn't hydroboost but I just looked on the O'Reilly website and it does show the hydroboost unit as being applicable also. I will have to check the 94 C&C with the powerstroke to see what it has.

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

I'm startled that they were still using a vacuum pump in '95.

I guess old ways die hard

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Ford F834

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

In reply to this post by kramttocs

Furthermore, RockAuto lists both vacuum and hydroboost components for F-Superduty, so did some of the F450 have vacuum brakes? 🤷‍♂️ All that I have come across were hydroboost.

Blacktop

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

No Gary, the booster doesnt come with the mc actuating rod.

1984 F150 XLT short bed 4x4 351w 4speed manual
1980 F100 long bed 2wd 300-6 3speed manual project truck
🇬🇧UK based truck enthusiast🇬🇧

Ford F834

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

I would call and ask. I don’t see anything in the description that says the rod is not included, yet it does mention that the mounting hardware does not come with it. Seems odd that they would not make mention of the actuating rod. Also, the photos from the PRIOR brand (out of stock) and Cardone (rebuilds your unit) appear to be the same images. These may be RockAuto stock photos, not representative of the supplier brand unit.

Blacktop

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

I might just have to buy one and take the chance that the rod will come with it. If it doesnt, hopefully someone on here would be kind enough to measure one for me so I could make my own?

Alan

1984 F150 XLT short bed 4x4 351w 4speed manual
1980 F100 long bed 2wd 300-6 3speed manual project truck
🇬🇧UK based truck enthusiast🇬🇧

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

Alan - Assuming you do it in the next several months, meaning before I get mine installed, I'll be happy to measure the rod for you. But I might have to draw it up in CAD for posterity.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hydroboost brake conversion

Administrator

Make it an STL file and share with the world on thingiverse....

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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