Has anyone put a Holley throttle body on a 300 I6

I know this a similar post to tommyg.  But I didn't  want to hijack his post. Seeing how they are both about improving, the underpowered 300 with a single barrel carb. So has anyone tried using a aftermarket throttle body ? Specifically a Holley sniper. They make a 2300 2 barrel version. And a Jeep single barrel. I would really like to go with a offenhauser intake.And Headman headers. I know that it might be overkill. But I would like the reliability. And improved breathing over the stock single  barrel. Something you can really 4x4 in. By that I mean going up and down really steep hills. And going down really rough dirt roads. Without starving the carb of fuel. I also know this will cost over $2000 with all of extra stuff to make it work. Like a electric  fuel pump and other parts. But I want to make my truck my daily driver. Even though my  my 96 GT mustang probably gets better mileage. I think it would make it more reliable.  

We get it April fools joke  I had to do it.

Give a look through this area as it should have different posts that may help you.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum52/

And I know this one will as it is just what you asked.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1557261-holley-sniper-efi-install.html
Just note he has a built up motor so don't know how well the v2 EFI kit would work on a stock motor.
I cant remember if anyone has done the bolt on Ford kit, think they make one now & the Jeep one too, or not at this time?

As for "I think it would make it more reliable".  
I don't have any issues with mine not being reliable in stock forum. I have over 5000 miles since back on the road in Nov 2019.
I have also raced Jeeps, Toyota L/C really and never had any issues with a carb on a vary ruff track even jumping it no issues but each his own I guess.
Dave ----

Thanks for the links. The were very informative, and this is definitely the way to go. From what have read on Holley's website. Is the system reads how you drive. Then it bases its output on that. So I think a perfectly stock 300 is fine. Just don't over size the throttle body. As for reliability carburetors and there performance or reliability. I live in southern Arizona. We have around 100 days of temperatures over 100 degrees. And where I live we get snow about 3 times a year. So we have some variable weather conditions. So vapor locking in the summer and having to wait for my truck to get warm in winter sucks. As for off roading I take my 4x4s all over, up and down very steep hills and canyons. So I've had problems with my carbureted trucks constantly starving for fuel. But maybe I've had them adjusted wrong. But I used to have 96 bronco with a EFI 302. I never ever had any problems with fuel delivery. So I am definitely going to go the Sniper route. Also I've read on the forum about changing the distributer. I'm not completely understanding why? If it needs input from the carb or the egr to advance timing why can't the Sniper do it. I know it's a stupid question. And it's been talked about all over this forum. Again thanks for responding and giving those links.

You wont be able to oversize the throttlebody from holley.  They just have the street version which is good to more power than most street vehicles will make then there is their race one that is good to more power.

The 4V I have is actually 800 cfm its the smallest sniper stealth they have its good to 600 hp as well.  Next step up is the 1250 cfm sniper stealth which is supposed to be good to 1000 hp.

The system does learn but only the fuel map.  You will have to get it tuned or play with it yourself to improve other areas that do not learn.

Its why I will be having mine dynotuned by a local guy that comes highly recommended by not just Holley but by everyone that has had a sniper.  He also does remote tuning as well.

Squirlye, one of the reasons for the dist. change on the 84 up 300 six motors is they are a feed back system. Feed back was Fords first "EFI" if you want to call it that.
There was a computer and it controlled the fuel mixture in the carb, the EFI side of feed back, and the computer also controlled the timing.

The dist. only set the timing to the factory as a start and pointed where the spark should go that was it.
Older dist. beside doing the above as did mechanical advance and vacuum advance timing.
With feed back this is all done by computer, the dist. can not do any advancing.

Now without asking Holley if their EFI can also control the Ford feed back dist. (known as TFI) timing advance I cant say. If it cant then you would need to swap it out for something that the Holley system can make changes to.
If you were to run old school dist. the only thing I can see is the dist. is trying to do its thing (adjust timing) and the EFI is trying to its thing (adding fuel) the thing is the 2 can either help each other or hurt each other. So that is why its best to have the Holley system control both fuel & timing.
Dave ----

FuzzFace2 wrote

Squirlye, one of the reasons for the dist. change on the 84 up 300 six motors is they are a feed back system. Feed back was Fords first "EFI" if you want to call it that.
There was a computer and it controlled the fuel mixture in the carb, the EFI side of feed back, and the computer also controlled the timing.

The dist. only set the timing to the factory as a start and pointed where the spark should go that was it.
Older dist. beside doing the above as did mechanical advance and vacuum advance timing.
With feed back this is all done by computer, the dist. can not do any advancing.

Now without asking Holley if their EFI can also control the Ford feed back dist. (known as TFI) timing advance I cant say. If it cant then you would need to swap it out for something that the Holley system can make changes to.
If you were to run old school dist. the only thing I can see is the dist. is trying to do its thing (adjust timing) and the EFI is trying to its thing (adding fuel) the thing is the 2 can either help each other or hurt each other. So that is why its best to have the Holley system control both fuel & timing.
Dave ----

You can run OE style distributors dont think TFI can how ever but I have heard the DSII distributor can be retained but you will have to lose the DSII ignition module and replace it with a ignition box like a MSD.  Then youll have to lock the OE distributor where it will have no mechanical or vacuum advance capability and install the distributor at 50* BTDC at cylinder #1 terminal on the cap.

I am thinking of doing this later on as the Holley distributors have a RFI issue that they still havent corrected.  Like wise MSD makes a DSII plug and play harness so you can simply unbolt your DSII module and mount a MSD CD box and plug it into your OE harness.  Only thing I am unsure about is if the OE tach in the dash would work with an aftermarket tach signal such as from a CD box for example.  Its one of the reasons why I am holding off on having my Sniper control the timing as I dont want to lose my OE tach.  If Dakota Digital comes out with their RTX retro cluster then I will be doing the swap as everyone swears letting the holley control the timing the power and fuel economy is so much better and the idle quality is so much smoother as the timing is constantly changing to help maintain idle.

Aside from that you can run the sniper with a conventional distributor without timing control.  Many people do this with no problem and I have installed many without making any changes to the ignition system and they all performed beautifully.  The throttle response over the carb was day and night just with the sniper install over a carb.

Wow you would think being the TFI dist. is locked you could use it?
Then you cant use the DSII box with the older dist. that you need to mod, but have to use the MSD box for a lot more money! Is Holley & MSD in bed together?

The MSD boxes have been known to go belly up and its not like you can hit the local parts store for one.
If they dont have (DSII box) in stock they can get it over night, not MSD.

As for the tach if the MSD box will not tigger the factory tach right from the box, MSD makes an adaptor to fix this. Look on MSD's site as it should be listed there.

I run all MSD IGN. in my drag car as I figured if I had any issues with it I could call them and they could not say "well you are using XXX part and that is where the issue is as they would not / could not test it.
I did not want any BS from them that way.
Dave ----

FuzzFace2 wrote

Wow you would think being the TFI dist. is locked you could use it?
Then you cant use the DSII box with the older dist. that you need to mod, but have to use the MSD box for a lot more money! Is Holley & MSD in bed together?

The MSD boxes have been known to go belly up and its not like you can hit the local parts store for one.
If they dont have (DSII box) in stock they can get it over night, not MSD.

As for the tach if the MSD box will not tigger the factory tach right from the box, MSD makes an adaptor to fix this. Look on MSD's site as it should be listed there.

I run all MSD IGN. in my drag car as I figured if I had any issues with it I could call them and they could not say "well you are using XXX part and that is where the issue is as they would not / could not test it.
I did not want any BS from them that way.
Dave ----

The TFI plugs into the coil inside when it bolts down correct?  Been a while since I messed with TFI, If you can some how get the wires out of the TFI distributor to hook up to an external module you could use it.

What you are doing is you are using the reluctor as a crank/cam signal for your sniper then the sniper triggers the ignition module itself to control the timing.  I guess if you could splice into the DSII wiring and break the circuit from the trigger in the distributor to the DSII module and have the Sniper sending the pulse signal it could in theory work.

As far as MSD goes, Holley owns MSD

https://www.holley.com/brands/msd/

Holley has bought out many brands that are under Holley ownership such as the following products.

Accel, APR, B&M, Brawler, Bright Earth, Carroll Shelby Wheels, Cataclean, Demon, Detroit Speed, Diablosport, Dinan, Drake Muscle Cars, Earls, Edge, Fender Gripper, Flowmaster, FLowmonster, Flowtech exhaust, Frostbite Cooling, Gearfx driveline, Hans, Hays, Hilborn, HK Wheels, Hooker, Hooker Blackheart, Lakewood, Legendary Wheels, Mallory, Mr. Gasket, MSD, NOS, OG Innovations, Proconnect, Proforged, Quick Fuel Technology, Quick Time, Racepak, Range Technology, Rekudo, Rev Wheels, Scott Drake, Simpson Racing, Spal Fans, Stilo, Street Fire, STS Turbo, Superchips, Tremec, Weiand, White box, XDR.

I will have to check that out, if I can use my DSII distributor I have that is brand new and just lock it out and thrown on a MSD and retain OE functionality of my Tach I will do this now vs spending $140 to ship my new distributor to Washington state to be recurved.  I can have the local guy that will be doing my tuning on my Sniper do the timing curve timing as well.

As far as MSD boxes going belly up, they sure do its why I wish I could use the DSII module with timing control but Holley didnt design their Sniper to function that way and I dont even know if the DSII module could be used that way in the first place.  I know there is a yellow strain relief DSII like on my 78 mercury that has the extra pig tail for a map sensor to advance the timing more in low load conditions for better fuel economy but even with a yellow strain relief I dont think you could get true timing control.  I know the other thing I dont like about the holley distributor is its a small cap design that looks more like vintage ford or vintage GM not the big caps that Ford and GM went with when they went to HEI systems.

This now makes sense to me. So now I see the route I need to take. From this post I realized that I have a non feed back Carter on my truck. The PO swapped out the original feed back carb to a regular carter. And that is probably why I have no power at full throttle. So my next question is, what is the difference between a DUI and HEI distributer? And which one do you guys recommend? The first thing I'm going to do is swap out the distributer. Then figure out which Holley Sniper system to go with. Thanks for all of the help. And be prepared for more questions. As I really like this truck, I'm and going keep it and build a little beast of a truck.

There's no difference in function.
Davis Unified Ignition is just expensive branding.

If Rusty is saying you need to lock your ignition at XX° you can easily do that by removing the Spout jumper.
These early EEC trucks used Push Start Thick Film Ignition modules.
They are perfectly happy to run with locked timing.
You don't need the computer for that.

In fact, that is one of the best ways to tell if you have a distributor/module ignition problem or a failed ECU.
Unplug the Spout, and see if the ignition stabilizes.

I'm not sure why he says you can't use a DSII box either?
They don't do any timing control, other than to add a 1 millisecond delay when they sense the starter is engaged.
Otherwise they are just a big transistor making and breaking coil ground, just like points.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

There's no difference in function.
Davis Unified Ignition is just expensive branding.

If Rusty is saying you need to lock your ignition at XX° you can easily do that by removing the Spout jumper.
These early EEC trucks used Push Start Thick Film Ignition modules.
They are perfectly happy to run with locked timing.
You don't need the computer for that.

In fact, that is one of the best ways to tell if you have a distributor/module ignition problem or a failed ECU.
Unplug the Spout, and see if the ignition stabilizes.

I'm not sure why he says you can't use a DSII box either?
They don't do any timing control, other than to add a 1 millisecond delay when they sense the starter is engaged.
Otherwise they are just a big transistor making and breaking coil ground, just like points.

You can if you dont want timing control.  If you want the sniper to control timing I have not seen anyone state you can use a DSII, you could probably repurpose it if you do some cutting and splicing.  But ultimately the sniper is triggering your coil and is using the reluctor in the Distributor to tell the sniper where your engine is at like a cam/crank position sensor.  Its why they want you to install the distributor directly on #1 cylinder at 50* btdc and then you rotate it while cranking slightly left and right on some models till a green light lights up inside the distributor to phase it in with the cam.  From there your sniper takes over total control of your timing.

Its easier to do with a MSD CD box as they have a twisted pair purple/green wire with correct connector that simply plugs into the MSD box for trigger signal.

Distributor it isnt too big a deal all it is, is basically a giant crank/cam position sensor but what matters is the ignition box itself which will be controlled by the sniper.  I dont know if the DSII module could even be triggered by the sniper, there might be a voltage difference and quite possibly fry the DSII module when the signal is introduced from the sniper.

Thats why for me my plan has always been to avoid the timing control function as it is more known for introducing RFI into the sniper and causing running issues and you have to run an aftermarket CD box at the very least.  I wouldnt mind running the box if it wasnt for the uncertainty of if the CD box could trigger the OE tach properly without damage.  I know many OE tachs arent setup like aftermarket tachs on their signal circuit.