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Fuel Injection upgrade

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Rusty_S85

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

Yep I have a 5.0, engine I am trying to build to replace my 5.0 is a real 5.0 (306 cid). I would love to do the dual snorkel and there are quite a few on ebay. Problem is I have dealer AC and my York compressor is right where the other snorkel comes out at.

This is how my truck is laid out under the hood.

I guess I could run a dual snorkel setup on my truck, would have to relocate the pcv filter though to the passenger side I think which would put the pcv filter on the driver side front which would require me to get a pcv filter cap so I can easily fill my engine with oil

Would have to relocate my plans for my fuse/relay box mounting as I would have to source another fresh air duct and place it on the driver side. I have to check I believe the hole is already there on the driver side.

As far as the throttle body goes, I believe it is the same dimensions as a Holley 4150 carb.

If I knew without a doubt the dual snorkel cleaner would fit I would consider investing the $150 - $200 for the aircleaner and clean it up and make it work. I just have to be sure. I also will have to look up the part number for the duct that bolts to the core support as I will have to pick up one to put on the driver side. I would also have to pick up another Hedman hot air duct to connect to the driver side header tube so both snorkels can pull warm air for cold weather.

"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2

Rusty_S85

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

I forgot I don't have to buy another core support duct. When I built that '82 F150 with the 5.0 Coyote engine I robbed that piece off and I believe I kept it and have it put up. Problem is though I don't know if there is one specifically for the driver side, if there is then I would want to go with that instead.

On the mustang dual snorkel, it will fit a 4150 carb but it seems '83 - '85 fit but the 82 - 83 are iffy.

Shame I didn't get turned on this sooner cause that 2012 forum post cited the going rate is $100 for them. The ones on ebay are $125 cheapest but then shipping is another $125 with some $40 tax. Too much for an air cleaner in my eyes.

Rusty_S85

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Hey Gary, I been reading your post over on fte on the dual snorkel air cleaner. You got any suggestions?

I have the OE air cleaner for my truck should be a E1TZ-9600-AJ, and that's what I bought off ebay NOS at least that's what the box says but the air filter in the box has a decal that says E3TZ-9600-TA and I don't know what it goes to so now I am looking at air cleaners.

You think a dual snorkel would work on my setup with a York compressor?

You think it could clear the Ford Racing slant roof valve covers I have as shown below?

Or do you have any suggestions for shrinking the size of the base of the NOS air cleaner I currently have so it would actually fit the sniper stealth like my OE air cleaner does?

Realistically I don't need to run a dual snorkel and frankly I don't really need a fresh air intake in the first place running fuel injection but I kind of like the OE stock look.

My only other option I thought of was picking up an air cleaner such as this one.

Then I can use it to attach to this fiberglass hood which I kind of like the look of over the cowl hood but not too sure how it looks from the rear which is what I will see driving the truck daily.

Something I will have to think about because I don't know which way I want to go. I do have a NOS air cleaner minus snorkel and I don't mind fabricating up a driver side fresh air duct and I can pick up another Hedman headers stove for the snorkel like I already bought one for the passengerside to make it functional. I just don't know how well it will clear my York compressor let alone how high it will sit above my aftermarket valve covers.

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

Administrator

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Yes, post pics and measurements. Gotta see this.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Rusty_S85

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

Will do, Ill be pulling the Sniper Stealth out tomorrow after work and get better photos and snap some photos with a rule near by as well as take measurements.

I kind of got discouraged and boxed it back up after I found out my NOS air cleaner isn't right and wouldn't even fit but carb and now I am back on the hunt for an air cleaner. Wont lie I felt like sending the EFI back but then I realized why? even if I send it back I am still in the same boat of having an air cleaner that wont fit a carb as its a bigger base than the 5 1/8" the holley sniper is set up for which is the same size neck on the 2150 2V ford carbs and on the 4V ford carbs. that's why I am shocked on the aircleaner having a larger base unless its for some TBI fuel injection it is a '83 dated part number.

But none the less I am impressed with the quality of it and it does in fact have the C4/C6 ford kick down linkage so it will work with automatic transmissions which is good for me I can use my 2" I think it is holley kick down extension to make a 2V kick down rod work with a 4V.

Only thing I may upgrade on my sniper is I might pick up the extension for the linkage I have to get it all put together and see how much effort it takes. I do plan on keeping my OE cruise control so I want a nice smooth throttle.

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

Administrator

So your air cleaner has a larger opening than the Sniper? Then why not make an a adapter? A simple piece of aluminum cut into a doughnut with the ID being for the Sniper and the OD for the air cleaner? I've done it before, and it works.

In fact, get me accurate dimensions and send me a piece of aluminum and I'll send it back to you cut to size. I'm thinking a piece of 1/4" would be about right.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rusty_S85

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

The OE one off my truck is the exact size. the NOS one I bought that I just found out was reboxed and the box number doesn't match the sticker on the aircleaner, it is a larger diameter. I am not sure how much but its enough that the air cleaner when you move it to the edge on one side there is a good gap on the other side.

If you try and center it, there is a slight sliver of light you can see. Im starting to think if I could maybe take a hammer and a dowel and roll the aircleaner lip inwards slightly.

Before I leave work today I am going to pop the hood on that 84 F150 with the 351w under the hood and see if that aircleaner is all broken up or not, if its not I might just rob it off the truck then play stupid if the boss wonders what happens to the aircleaner months later.

But none the less I will try to measure the aircleaner to get some comparisons going.

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

Administrator

If the air cleaners are breaking then you probably have the 2bbl version. The HO versions are much stronger and I've never seen one break.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rusty_S85

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

Yep, mine is a 2V, the one on the truck at work that I didn't check cause I decided to fabricate the NOS one I have to work is a 4V.

The NOS unit I have labeled as E3TZ-9600-TA has a bare aluminum base with a black painted lid. I didn't measure the airfilter itself or the aircleaner itself but I measured the mounting neck and it is right on 5 9/16".

I also measured the sniper which measuring at the smallest point it is exactly 5" and if I measure to outside edge it is 5 1/2" which means 5 1/8" would be ideal. Photos below shows the airfilter will fit but it is very close to the edge. Im thinking about making a 5" circle to fit the throttle body fairly snug and have the adapter come out to 5 5/8" which would put it slightly larger than the aircleaner I have. I would then have to custom fit it on the engine stand when I get to that point to make locating pins to locate the aircleaner to the adapter to make it fit only one way and not move around.

I think that is about the only way to get it right. If I stick with this air cleaner I really want to try and locate a NOS snorkel cause I am seriously contemplating painting the bare aluminum base. Maybe paint it engine blue or maybe just paint it a satin black. Not sure about the lid if I want to leave the lid black or strip it.

This is the air cleaner sitting centered on the carb it is just barely fitting and you can see how far away it is from the inner most ring.

This is the aircleaner shifted all the way to one side showing the amount of air leak I would have if it shifted on me while driving.

And this is a close up of the C4/C6 linkage that is locked in place by the silver screw.

Now onto the juicy details on the 4150 Sniper Stealth.

Height : 3 1/4"
Length : 11 1/4"
Width : 8 1/8"
Air filter Flange : 5" to 5 1/2"

Flange Style : 4150
CFM : 870
Max HP : 650 NA
Map Sensor : 2 Bar
Inlet/Outlet : 3/4-16 Female O-ring
Injector Size : 100 Lb/Hr @ 58.5 PSI

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

Administrator

I'm with you on everything but the locating pins. I got lost there. Are they for keeping the air cleaner from being installed at the wrong angle?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rusty_S85

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

Correct the locating pins would to keep the aircleaner from rotating. The stud itself would keep the aircleaner from moving side to side but it wouldnt stop the aircleaner from spinning. I figured drill a little hole and afix a dowel to the plate to make contact with the locating ears would keep it in place.

I also found out on FTE that this aircleaner I have is probably for one of the variable venturi carbs that were most likely larger base for the aircleaner.

Only thing is some are wondering why I am sticking with OE sized single exhaust and OE aircleaner but doing a performance build. My line of thought is the 2 1/2" to 2 1/4" exhaust setup on these trucks were the same for 302 and 351W engines. If they were enough for a 351W engine to breath properly then it should be big enough for a 302 or a 306 in this case to breathe properly. Same with the aircleaners, if they fit 302/351W then they should be capable of providing enough air volume for a 306. After all a engine is only able to pull in so much air and a 306 will never pull in more air than a 351W unless you start spinning it at way higher rpm. Which my engine wouldnt be spinning more rpm than a 351W as my redline is 6,000 but power band is only 1,400 to 5,400 rpm

Jacob84

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

I have a single 2.5 inch exhaust, stock manifolds, mild 351w. Breaths just fine. A lot of people go a little overboard with exhaust on a street vehicle that spends most time at 500-3,000 rpm. Not worth the hassle to me at least. I'm looking forward to you getting yours together and how it runs.

Jacob,
84 F150 base model, New 95 roller 351w with 5.0 ho roller cam, Summit Racing Max EFI 500, and other toys, MSD DIS, C6 trans, 9 inch rear 3.50, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 33s, 2.5" Rough Country lift.

Rusty_S85

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

Thats the thing, lots of people go too big on exhaust. In my eyes if ford felt 2 1/2" from the manifolds back to the muffler and then 2 1/4" from the muffler back is big enough for a 351W then it should be big enough for a street 306 that isnt even running a restrictive converter that will never see past 5,500 rpm when floored.

Im also anxious to see how its going to run especially with the fuel injection. I know these snipers just doing the default setting results in way more responsive throttle than the carburetor that came off.

In other news, I got a notification that a 84-86 Mustang HO air cleaner has came down in price by $10 online. I can pick it up for $180 with free shipping. I still think that is too much money for a used aircleaner that is banged up and as the description states, one snorkel is held on by rivets the other by screws. That tells me its going to be kind of like the one I have currently that had two screws put in it as the rivets were loose.

I cant post the three photos I have as it changes all the photos to be the same photo. Not sure I want to get it though. I probably could take and use my air cleaner lid as I think all the aircleaners were the same size.

Also looks like the temperature switch for the snorkel vacuum motors is in the bottom of the aircleaner which I am not too crazy about but I guess if my NOS air cleaner lid will fit this air cleaner I could leave that one empty and hook up to the one in the lid itself.

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

Administrator

You also found out on here about the VV air cleaner:

85lebaront2 wrote

Is your NOS air cleaner for a VV? They have a larger air cleaner opening.

And, as I was scrolling back through to find that I also found that you asked me a question about dual snorkel air cleaners. Do you still want to discuss that? I think it would work.

Also, I think there are at least three sizes of V8 air cleaner lids: the 351W HO/460 lid is the largest; the Mustang HO lid is next; and the truck 2bbl lid is the smallest. I'm not sure that the Mustang lid isn't the same size as the 2bbl lid, but I'm fairly sure it is smaller than the 351W HO lid.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

Administrator

On the air cleaner lids, post the size of yours and I'll check my 351 HO lid tomorrow. And a 2bbl lid if I have one.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rusty_S85

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Sure. Ill consider a dual snorkel air cleaner as an alternative if it fits better. I do believe my '82 F150 has the opening on the driver side as well and I have another passengerside duct that I can chop up to make fit. My only concern is spending $200+ for a mustang dual snorkel air cleaner and then it doesnt fit right with my dealer AC.

My idea was to maintain my push in breather as I believe my breather is forward enough to clear it but wont know till I install everything. If it is then I would have to route the hose along the side of the motor to the back of the aircleaner unless I relocate the pcv to the driverside front which I am not too sure about till I get to digging into my instructions to see where the PCV port is on my 4150 sniper.

On the lid, I cant get the 2V one off my truck right now as its raining pretty heavy right now but I did measure the NOS unit I got, lip to lip on the lid measuring directly across the aircleaner stud hole gave me 15 7/8". Center of the rubber gasket to center of the rubber gasket across the stud hole gave me a 15 3/8" diameter. The air filter is a 11 1/8" diameter filter with a motorcraft part# of D2AF-9601-AA

If it would fit the Mustang HO lid that would be nice cause my lid is already painted satin black.

This is a photo of the NOS aircleaner lid I have, its a older photo when I was trying to decide on a decal for it but it shows the black finish on the lid.

Rusty_S85

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

I took my old fuse box wiring diagram I created a year and a half ago and upgraded it to reflect changes I will have to make for my fuel injection decision.

Only possible change I am still thinking about from the diagram is possibly splicing my two KC 100w driving lights to the same highbeam relay to free up a relay spot. Im also playing ideas through my head right now on if its possible to even link the two AC relays into one. But I dont believe it is as one relay has to be grounded when the AC is switched on to provide a ground signal for input #1 to provide the AC kick or high idle over ride which is what I will be using. The relay for AC shut down using output #6 which is the sniper applying a ground to the relay to switch from the normally closed center pin position to the switched pin which will disconnect the AC circuit.

Im also not sure if I should go as large as 15A for the battery hot circuit for the shut down relay to sniper ground. Probably could get by with just 5A.

Might be a little hard to read seeing as its created in paint. I will be doing a better diagram in photoshop just trying to get the idea pinned first so I am not making multiple changes. Only thing I am unsure about is the gauges and colors of the wires I want to use. I might make changes there but I did order a bunch of wire from my bulk wiring website. I got the following so far.

20Ga Green SXL cross linked - 40ft
16Ga Green SXL cross linked - 20ft
16Ga Brown SXL cross linked - 20ft
16Ga Black SXL cross linked - 20ft
16Ga Blue SXL cross linked - 20ft
14Ga Orange SXL cross linked - 15ft
10Ga Red SXL cross linked - 8ft

Have to find my paperwork where I made notes of what my plan was when I bought these wires as I dont remember. I think the 20Ga wire I got was for my CB power wire and I believe the 10ga wire is for the main power wire for the bussed fuse terminal.

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

Administrator

I got a little bit lost on the AC relays. Let me state it how I think you meant it:

You need a ground to tell the Sniper when the AC is on

The Sniper provides a ground when it wants to kill the AC

If that's the case then I think you are stuck using two relays - one to give the ground to the Sniper when the AC is on, and one to open the circuit to the AC when the Sniper wants to turn it off.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rusty_S85

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

Correct, the AC kicker relay needs to apply ground to Input #1 to inform the sniper the AC is on. The AC cut out relay has 12V power on the relay at all times and it only becomes active when the Output #6 wire is applied to ground by the sniper itself to close the relay. It is why this relay will use pin 5 or 87a pin which is normally hot till it is active then the circuit is broken as pin 87a goes dead while pin 87 goes active.

This is a new photoshop diagram I created in the last hour to clean things up and make it a easier to understand by showing pin 87a vs my hand drawn paint diagram shown above.

Only thing that isnt labeled on this is the fuel pump relay as I cant remember exactly how the wiring is done as I only ever cut one harness apart and there is no active wiring diagram for this setup.

To cut down on a bunch of back and forth wiring, the AC kick relay gets its trigger from pin 87a from the AC cutout relay. This way when the sniper shuts the AC down it also tells the sniper the AC is shut down on the AC kick relay. I dont know if it would cause a problem if it still showed the AC as active or not, but I dont think I want to chase my tail with it causing a problem and not thinking of it.

I also found out the smaller relay which is relay R6 on the above diagram, it is a 20A relay which should be fine cause the Sniper is only rated for 15A. The larger square relays I found are 40A relays which means I should be able to move my KC driving lights to obtain power from the highbeam relay as it is doubtful it would ever exceed 20A with highbeams and driving lights active.

Rusty_S85

Re: Fuel Injection upgrade

Yet another possible change I am possibly making.

Since I am going with a 85-86 fuel tank so I can have a in tank fuel pump that means I will be running a fuel tank without baffling in said tank. Holley how ever makes what they call a HydraMat that in videos looks like it would stop low fuel level performance issues with a fuel injection setup due to fuel slosh.

https://youtu.be/yfE1v65fNZI

The only thing I dont like about this is its kind of pricy at $200 nearly for a 3"x15" strip. Normally this wouldnt be a problem but Holley`s paperwork on this product states the following.

[quote]The HydraMat filtration performance will provide 5-10 years or more depending on the fuel type, how clean your fuel
system is, how much you drive your car, and how aggressively the car is used. Severe duty applications should inspect
the filter at regular intervals to ensure the Hydramat is not restricted by debris. The Hydramat is not cleanable.[/quote]

That makes me wary cause 5 - 10 years of use does worry me a bit. Am I going to be having to drop my tank every 5 to 10 years when the OE setups would run till the pump finally burns up. I also dont like how they also state the life expectancy is dependent on the fuel type, how clean the fuel system is (which fuel system cleanliness is dependent on the gas station as what gets pumped in your tank wont get to your filter unless its small enough) or how much/aggressively you drive your vehicle.

To me that makes it sound like highway driving at 75 - 80 mph for 2 or 3 hours at a time on the highway is going to potentially cause me to have to be dropping my fuel tank constantly. I am going to have to do a lot of thinking on this.

But the fuel pump I was looking at wont work with this HydraMat, its a Walbro GSS340 style pump with a 22mm fuel pump inlet but I can pick up a Walbro GSS341 or GSS342 style pump which has either a inline with outlet or a offset with outlet inlet that is 11mm which is the size of the Hydramat.

So this is one option that can be had but I need to do more research on realistic life expectancy for this product though. I dont like the 5 to 10 year life span and that with agressive driving you need to check it on a more regular basis. People wont be dropping their tanks in a driver to do this. But they do offer this mat in their EFI retrofit in tank sending unit pump assemblies for classic cars. Something people really wouldnt be dropping the tanks from on a regular basis.

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