First Drive Today

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First Drive Today

hubcityford
I finally got my truck running and drove it home today around dusk. It was hard to see through 12 years of junk on windshield. Got it home and my two little girls were so excited they helped me wash it in the dark. Still got more to do but so far so good. It idles good in park and neutral but when it goes in gear is runs rough until I accelerate. I have not replaced plugs or wires yet and belts are original and whining. Any pointers on running rough in gear?

Thanks Jeremy
Jeremy “Hubcityford“
1981 4.2L (255) V8 Auto
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Re: First Drive Today

Gary Lewis
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Congrat's!  Getting to drive it is such a good feeling.  

You say it idles well in neutral, but not in gear.  However, then it runs ok once you accelerate?  That sounds like an incorrect air/fuel mix at idle.  Probably lean, which could be from a vacuum leak, and that could be due to a cracked hose, a hose that's come off, or a cap that's come off.

I'm sure it could use plugs and wires, but if it runs well other than idle I'd not rush to replace them as acceleration tests them far more than idle does.  Instead look the vacuum hoses over very closely.  VERY closely.  They tend to get old and crack or even fall off, and that causes a lean air/fuel mix.  The engine might run ok at idle with no load on it, but not with a load.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: First Drive Today

hubcityford
Thanks for the advice but I hate to sound stupid but how do I determine which hoses are vacuum? And would it be worth replacing all just to be on the safe side? I apologize for the hand holding but I am really ignorant on most of this until I start digging in.

Jeremy
Jeremy “Hubcityford“
1981 4.2L (255) V8 Auto
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Re: First Drive Today

Gary Lewis
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No need to apologize.  None of us were born knowing this.

Basically all of the hoses under the hood are vacuum hoses except the radiator and heater hoses.  The two radiator hoses run from the radiator to the engine and are probably 1 1/2" in diameter.  The two heater hoses go from the engine to the heater core, are roughly 1" in diameter, and those connections are near the passenger's fender on the firewall.

All of the other hoses are, I think, vacuum hoses.  They'll be roughly 1/4" to 3/8" in diameter and are connected to all sorts of emissions stuff.  They'll look like spaghetti, running everywhere.

Does that help?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: First Drive Today

hubcityford
Great analogy, had spaghetti tonight. So I went and looked and there are definitely a lot of hoses. Should I start at the air filter and work myself back? Just trying to figure a plan of action. Or would it be hoses that are connected at carburetor?

Jeremy
Jeremy “Hubcityford“
1981 4.2L (255) V8 Auto
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Re: First Drive Today

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Hard to have a game plan with something so seemingly random.  Just put a piece of tape on each hose you check and go until they are all checked.

But, there are a couple of other ways to do this:

Brake cleaner: Get a can from the parts store and spray it around where there might be leaks.  If the engine's idle speeds up you've found a leak.  But, the stuff will mess paint up, so be careful.

Smoke test: David/1986F150Six has a writeup on doing this here: http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Vacuum-leak-detection-effective-and-inexpensive-td11511.html
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: First Drive Today

hubcityford
I went a played around this morning but mainly just looking. I started it up and one thing I did notice was a hiss from the AC control inside the cab. I flipped switches around and nothing worked but hiss was constant. I know AC has vacuum to help control some things but is that a separate vacuum system?

Being in South Mississippi I’ll be inquiring about AC issue soon.

Just thought I would ask about hissing sound in case it could be related.

Jeremy
Jeremy “Hubcityford“
1981 4.2L (255) V8 Auto
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Re: First Drive Today

Gary Lewis
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All vacuum comes from the engine.  The only exception is the diesels, which have a vacuum pump.  So it sounds like one of your vacuum motors in the HVAC system is leaking.  And that is a sure source of air into the system that will upset the idle.

So use a hose to your ear as an aid to pinpointing the hiss.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: First Drive Today

hubcityford
Using hose I started truck and started looking with hose to ear and seems to be immediately behind AC control dead center.

JV
Jeremy “Hubcityford“
1981 4.2L (255) V8 Auto
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Re: First Drive Today

Gary Lewis
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I think there are two vacuum motors back that.  Best case one of the hoses is off.  Worst case is that one of the motors has a split diaphragm.  Anyway, take a look at this page from the 1981 EVTM: http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/heating-ventilation--air-conditioning.html.

And with a light go up under the dash and check the hoses.  Also, you might remove the glove compartment liner as that gives you a view into that area that is hard to get otherwise.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: First Drive Today

hubcityford
Everything looks to be connected. I pinpointed the noise coming from the rotating portion of the control arm that directs to vent, normal, max, etc. I took photo with a bolt pointing to the hole that noise is coming from. My hand is on the back of ash tray. There is a spring between leaking piece and ash tray. I assume all the small tubes coming in on back tell the AC system what vents to open and close ?

Is there a way to remove vacuum from AC temporarily so truck will run fine until I figure out the AC leak?

Jeremy
Jeremy “Hubcityford“
1981 4.2L (255) V8 Auto
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Re: First Drive Today

hubcityford
Jeremy “Hubcityford“
1981 4.2L (255) V8 Auto
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Re: First Drive Today

Gary Lewis
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Yes, you can easily pull the vacuum from the HVAC system.  In the pic below you can see the hose coming from the plastic manifold on the firewall to the tee/check valve.  If you pull the hose off the tee/check valve and plug it that will do it.  But, be careful as the little plastic hoses are usually brittle.


Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: First Drive Today

FuzzFace2
Gary Lewis wrote
Yes, you can easily pull the vacuum from the HVAC system.  In the pic below you can see the hose coming from the plastic manifold on the firewall to the tee/check valve.  If you pull the hose off the tee/check valve and plug it that will do it.  But, be careful as the little plastic hoses are usually brittle.


Don't over look that "juice" can that is part of the HVAC system as  vacuum leak.
Mine had pin holes on the bottom & ends of the can.
My fix was to remove the can from the truck, remove the bracket from the can and use fiberglass rosin to coat the areas with the pin holes.
Once the rosin set up I painted it black put the bracket back on and back in the truck and it is good as new.

I do need to replace the check valve / Tee as it does not "check" and when giving it throttle you loose vacuum to hold the doors where they are set to.

I hope your HVAC control is not leaking as it sounds like as it can be a PITA to R&R.
Also they make 3 different ones based on years and are hard to come be new.
Good luck
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: First Drive Today

hubcityford
Well it seems to be a little better and no hissing from inside cab AC. I think there is more vacuum issues than the AC. Probably going to take to my “go to” mechanic so he can give it a once over. I’m going to let him look over brake system. So far that is the scariest thing, brakes seem fine but then they just go away and I’m to the floor with pedal. I’m only doing small drives around neighborhood and not getting over 15 mph. Figure I can down shift and hit emergency brake and bail out before a firey crash.

JV
Jeremy “Hubcityford“
1981 4.2L (255) V8 Auto
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Re: First Drive Today

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I think you are saying you plugged the vacuum line and the hissing in the cab stopped and it seems to run a bit better.  Right?  But that there may well be other vacuum issues, which is very possible given the age of the vacuum lines on these truck.

However, having brakes is paramount, so having someone look at that is a good idea.  He may find that the master cylinder is dry and, if so, the brakes will need to be bled.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: First Drive Today

hubcityford
You are correct with your summary. Still more to come with vacuum issue.

On to next thing...I hopefully will have all my new belts tomorrow. Is there anything I need to know when installing new belts? Just get tight or is there any trick to it?

Thanks
Jeremy
Jeremy “Hubcityford“
1981 4.2L (255) V8 Auto
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Re: First Drive Today

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Better a bit loose than too tight.  Too tight hurts the bearings.  But new belts will stretch a bit, so check them after you've driven an hour or so.

I like to see about 1/2" of movement in the middle of the belt when I push with my finger.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: First Drive Today

hubcityford
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
I took the truck in for brakes (and it hurt the pocketbook) and my mechanic mentioned that it was “running cold” and explained that that meant accelerator pump was not acting properly. Would this be another possible cause for sputtering instead of the vacuum you mentioned?  Curious to know what kind of project accelerator pump replacement may be? Can a newbie like me accomplish?

Thanks
Jeremy
Jeremy “Hubcityford“
1981 4.2L (255) V8 Auto
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Re: First Drive Today

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, a bad accelerator pump might cause that.

As for if you can do it, let's first determine what carb you have.  I believe it will be a Motorcraft 2150, but please go hear and verify that's what you have: Documentation/Fuel Systems/Carb's Chokes & EFI/Motorcraft 2150.

If that's the one you have then you should be able to rebuild it.  That's a pretty simple carb, and the link to the instructions on the Ranger Station plus the instructions from the factory shop manual should be more than enough.  But there are also lots of youtubes on it.

Having said that, if it is just the accelerator pump, which you can verify by removing the air cleaner and looking down the carb as you open the throttle, then you should be able to replace that w/o even removing the carb.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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