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F100 Project

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xlt351cOZ

F100 Project

Hey out there, my name is Tim. Im from the Central Coast in New South Wales, Australia,and I bought a 1983 F100 XLT and it will be the start of a mild restoration. I am currently having it looked at by my mechanic and should get the details today. But the first thing I want to tackle is the transmission as it pops out of 3rd upon deceleration . I believe it has the New Process 4 speed gearbox in it. The 1983 model came with the option of a 351c with 4barrel Carb or a 250cu 6cyl . Mine is the 351c. The previous owner put an LPG system on it (dual fuel) and a 350 holley. for economy. I think this has to change as its all show and no go, but having said that its unmolested and was owned by a country bloke from western NSW so Ive discovered red dust everywhere. We will see how it goes. Anyway, Im glad to be part of the scene and look forward to the advice and banter

Gary Lewis

Re: F100 Project

Administrator

Welcome to the forum! We are here to help you, as well as share your journey.

I had an NP435 that would pop out of gear on deceleration unless it was crammed into gear. But sometimes the synchros make it very difficult to get fully into gear. My first move would be to drain and refill the tranny to see if better fluid would help shifting.

As for the 351C, lots of guys here love them. I like the family, but will use the longer-stroked M-block in Dad's truck. And, by the way, the best Cleveland guru anywhere is Tim Meyer, who has his own aluminum block, intake manifold, thermostats, etc.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Ford F834

Re: F100 Project

Administrator

In reply to this post by xlt351cOZ

Welcome to the group and thanks for sharing your project! I have a Borg Warner T19 four speed that like to pop out of gear while holding the truck back on downhill runs. Similar problem. I did a lot of reading and two flaws that I kept running into are fore/aft play in the main shaft, and a worn ball on the end of the shifter cane. Mine is fine in both respects, so I have something else going on... but those are two things that you could check. Since a worn shift lever tip can cause the problem, it follows that where it mates with the shift forks could also do it... mine isn't bad enough for me to dig into it just now, but that's where I plan to look next.

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

PetesPonies

Re: F100 Project

I have rebuilt a lot of manual transmissions, however, non like yours. So from a generic point of view . verify that the synchronizer is fully engaging onto the selected gear. Check any linkage. Hold the shifter so it doesn't fall out of gear while driving. Do you feel it trying to kick out or does it seem smooth holding it in gear? Any chance any carpet, rubber mat, rubber boot, is pushing back on the shifter lever? If all that proves nothing, then going inside is what needs to happen. There are several detents within the transmission, on shift rails to the slippers on the synchronizer itself. All need to be checked.,

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

1982 F100 Flareside
1983 Bronco

Gary Lewis

Re: F100 Project

Administrator

If you do want to rebuild it I have the workshop manual chapters for some of the transmissions here:

Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions/General Manual Transmission Service

Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions/NP435

Driveline/Transmission/Manual Transmissions/T-18

Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions/T-19

Note that yours may be a T-18 and not a T-19 since that tranny was only behind the 460 and diesel, but they are very similar transmissions.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: F100 Project

Administrator

In reply to this post by xlt351cOZ

Welcome to the forum Tim!

As already mentioned make sure the synchro's are letting it get all the way into gear and the detents are not burred.

Popping out of gear under power and on trailing throttle are different conditions so don't go chasing your tail.

The 351C is a fine engine that we didn't see enough of here in the States.
In fact the only ones I've ever driven were in my friends Panteras.

Not sure what the parts situation is down in Australia but I have a 600 cfm Holley on offer in the 'buy, sell, trade' section and will have a 650 Edelbrock on there soon (I hope)

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

xlt351cOZ

Re: F100 Project

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Thanks for the advice Gary.

xlt351cOZ

Re: F100 Project

In reply to this post by Ford F834

Thanks Ford F834,

I think I will be taking it to the Transmission guy for a look, and await the diagnosis

Gary Lewis

Re: F100 Project

Administrator

That’s a good plan. I used to think I needed to do everything myself. But I’m now finding that I can get s lot more done by hiring the pro’s. 👍

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: F100 Project

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

....Note that yours may be a T-18 and not a T-19 since that tranny was only behind the 460 and diesel, but they are very similar transmissions.

True in the US, but then again, the 351C wasn't offered in trucks in the US, so I wouldn't bet on Australia having the same rules.

The T-19 has a synchro'd 1st gear while the T-18 does not. So it shouldn't be too hard to tell which it is by driving it. And I think I've read that T-18s have a single PTO plate while T-19s have 2. But take that bit of hear-say for what it's worth.

Bob
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
"Oswald": 1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
"Pluto": 1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
"the motorhome": 2015 E-450-based 28' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
"the Dodge": 2007 Dodge 2500, 6.7L Cummins

Gary Lewis

Re: F100 Project

Administrator

Good point! Obviously, what goes here doesn't go there. Thanks for the reminder.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

PetesPonies

Re: F100 Project

Do we reaLLy know for sure it came with a 351C ?? They were only built '70-74 here. Was there a foundry abroad that kept doing them? I know they had small chamber 2V heads there, which weren't available here. But is it a for real 351C or a M ??

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

1982 F100 Flareside
1983 Bronco

Gary Lewis

Re: F100 Project

Administrator

The machinery for the Cleveland engines was sent to Australia in 1971 and both the 351C and a 302C were produced there until 1985. And many of their vehicles used those engines. But the 351M and 400 were never offered there much less made there.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

PetesPonies

Re: F100 Project

A Cleveland is just not a good truck engine. Great engine, but not for a truck.

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

1982 F100 Flareside
1983 Bronco

Gary Lewis

Re: F100 Project

Administrator

Tell Tim Meyer that. He has a new aluminum Cleveland block, with a compacted graphite coming soon. And with a stroker kit he turns out lots of torque from the Cleveland.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

PetesPonies

Re: F100 Project

Talking as delivered obviously. Just not a great low RPM engine, great high RPM! Ports are too large with that technology to get good fuel atomization and fill . .equates to sluggish lower end. And in a heavy vehicle . .even worse, IE truck :)

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

1982 F100 Flareside
1983 Bronco

Gary Lewis

Re: F100 Project

Administrator

The 351C is part of the 335 Series of engines that includes the 351M and 400. In fact, other than deck height and main bearing diameters there is very little difference between a 351C and a 351M.

There were two sets of heads here in the US, and even more in OZ. Here we had 4V heads, meaning they came with a 4bbl carb, which had the huge ports you are talking about and were poor for low-end torque. But the 2V heads were the same ones on the 351M's and 400's and work well at low RPM - after all, they were standard issue on trucks.

And the stroke on the 351C is the same as the 351M - and 351W for that matter. So, the 351C has basically the same torque as a 351M , assuming they have the same cam, since they have the same bore, stroke, and heads.

So, the 351C in stock form with a 2bbl carb and heads, like would have been on it if it had been issued in these trucks, would have been equally as strong as a 351M. Now, the M wasn't a powerhouse, but it wasn't due to the heads. Instead, it was down on power for two reasons - retarded cam timing and low compression. I don't know what the spec's were in OZ for the engines, but there's no reason the 351C shouldn't have been a good low-RPM engine.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

xlt351cOZ

Re: F100 Project

In reply to this post by PetesPonies

page_1.pdf page_2.pdf

Hey Garry ,

Just loaded a couple of scanned pages from the handbook that came with the 1983 F100 in Australia.
indicating the 5.8 351c 4V . I doubt it came with 4V heads but it did come stock with a Carter Thermoquad 4 barrel Carby and Bosch electronic distributor.

Ive got genuine 1981-1983 F Series repair manual as well

Cheers

Tim

Nothing Special

Re: F100 Project

xlt351cOZ wrote

....Just loaded a couple of scanned pages from the handbook that came with the 1983 F100 in Australia indicating the 5.8 351c 4V . I doubt it came with 4V heads ....

The "4V" in the engine description generally means it had a 4 barrel carb. The "V" stands for venturi.

Gary Lewis

Re: F100 Project

Administrator

Yes, "4V" means 4 venturi. But, the large-port intakes were referred to as "4V heads" because they came on engines with 4bbl carbs. However, as Pete pointed out, that gave the engine really poor low RPM torque, so it is unlikely Ford would have put those heads on an engine in a truck.

I've converted the PDF to JPG and included it below - thanks, Tim. And 149 KW = 200 HP @ 4300, and 410 NM = 302 ft-lbs @ 3000 for the 4bbl engine. Compare that to 138 HP @ 3400 and 263 ft-lbs @ 2000 that Bubba said the 1980 351M produced.

However, when did Australia go to net power figures? The US went in about 1972 so Bubba's figures are net, but are the Aussie figures net?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile