Electric AC Condenser Fan

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Electric AC Condenser Fan

86 1/2 Brutus
We just bought everything new to replace the factory AC.  We need an electric condenser fan that wont break the bank.  There's not much room.  What is everybody using?
Nick and George
1986 1/2  F150 XLT Lariat 4X2  300 Six  - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 -  Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

old55pete
I am still using the stock clutch fan. If it is not coming on when the pressure on the high side this between 250 and 300 lbs, it needs to be replaced any ways.

What alternator do you have? If it still has the stock 40 amp alt, you might want to swap it out for a bigger one first. The reason I am saying that is that the smaller alternators dont put out much if any at an idle, say sitting at a traffic light in the heat of the day. When you add the load of the AC blower motor, an aux fan for the AC system, and what ever else you have on, you can kill a battery quick.

Is the AC factory or add on. The reason I am asking is there is a different fan shroud for the trucks with factory air and without air. The fan shroud makes a big difference with the amount of air pulled through radiator and AC condenser which is in front of the radiator.

Just some thoughts. Dont take what I say as gospel. Just some thoughts to help out if I can.
Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears, Tilt steering, factory AC
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

86 1/2 Brutus
In reply to this post by 86 1/2 Brutus
The truck came equipped with Factory AC.  I believe the alternator is somewhere around 110 amp or somewhere around there.  The truck came with 2 batteries and a heavy duty charging system.   I want to keep the regular fan but i also want to put an electric fan in front of the condenser and am trying to figure out what will fit, there's not much room between the condenser and the grill.  I want as much ram air on the condenser as i can get.  Using 134a you need alot of ram air and the truck will mainly tool around town
Nick and George
1986 1/2  F150 XLT Lariat 4X2  300 Six  - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 -  Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

old55pete
You are correct about there not being a lot of room between the grill and the condenser, a few inches at best( I was just out working on my AC ).

I guess my question would have to be, why do you think you need an aux fan in front of your condenser? The stock fan pulls plenty of air at an idle to keep the system pressures correct and the AC ice cold sitting at a traffic light with the out side temp at 119 deg in down town Phoenix AZ.
Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears, Tilt steering, factory AC
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

86 1/2 Brutus
In reply to this post by 86 1/2 Brutus
R134a does not work very well at slow speeds and stop n go traffic which is why vehicles equipped with it used electric fans in addition to the clutch fan.  My 95 crown vic is a good example.   When you start the car the electric fan does not come on until the car heats up or you turn the AC on.  That was the one big thing about going from r12 to 134a.  R12 works fine at low speeds and at idle.  Unfortunately 134a does not.   If the truck did mostly highway travel i wouldn't worry about it.  But we mostly drive around town, and here in southeast Louisiana.  I need that AC cold cold cold.   I miss R12  when the truck was new you could hang meat in there it was so cold
Nick and George
1986 1/2  F150 XLT Lariat 4X2  300 Six  - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 -  Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

old55pete
Here is the temp of my AC that I just finished about an hour ago. This is a R12 system converted to R134 in 2002. I had to make some repairs to the system then recharge it. I have a blue orface tube in it, 1 1/2 oz of pag 150 oil in it. I took that picture while it was 101 outside and 50% humidity because it had just rained. My Bronco sat there idling for 30 minutes before I took that picture. After only a few minutes of recharging the system it was at 36 deg. I am pretty sure you would have your meat locker with temps like this in a single cab F150
Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears, Tilt steering, factory AC
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

85lebaront2
Administrator
In reply to this post by 86 1/2 Brutus
I converted Darth to R134 years ago and even then had no problem keeping things cold until I stopped. If the truck sat and "hot soaked" it would take a long time to get cold again. Combination of no insulation on the underhood casing, the crummy 1986 blend door and being a crew cab. When a friend bought a flipped 1996 F150 4WD 5.0L truck to get the engine for his V8 Ranger project, I snagged the cab portion of the AC, the condenser was toast. Found a set of 1995 lines at Pick-n-Pull and with the compressor from the 1996 5.0L (460s had two different size clutch pulleys) and got a new 1994-96/7 Spectra Premium condenser from LKQ and adapted it to my 1990 radiator support. You can hang meat in there in summer here on the East coast of Virginia in traffic without an auxiliary fan.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

old55pete
In reply to this post by 86 1/2 Brutus
The other thing I forgot to mention is that you have to change the clutch pressure switch on the receiver/ dryer to one that is for R134 as the pressures run different then they do for R12. That makes a big difference in the way the AC performs. Not meaning to sound mean or anything, but it sounds like someone did dident do a complete job when your system was converted to R134.
Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears, Tilt steering, factory AC
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

Rusty_S85
In reply to this post by old55pete
My converted truck doesnt blow that cold.  I hope to get it to there by making corrections.

First off my '82 is dealer AC, it has the non AC 5 bladed flex fan which I have a 7 bladed flex fan which was a option for AC equipped trucks aside from a 6 bladed clutch fan.  I also think I might have a problem with the old thermostatic switch for the cycling of my AC system, it cycles off at around 45* but will blow 58* out the vent all day long at 100* ambient air temp.  I am going to swap my thermostatic switch out for one I found on ebay that has an identical plug to mine but is for a 65 mustang that has a AC cutout of 25* and a cut in of 32*.  I hope this coupled with the correct bladed and sized fan should help my AC out.  if not the next step for me is to junk the tiny dealer condenser and install a full width condenser that is made for 134A.

I have to double check but I believe mine is also an expansion valve system since there is no accumulator and just a receiver drier.  The thermostatic switch is to allow you to control the temp out of the dash as there is no blend door for the AC.  I am not sure there is a upgrade for the expansion valve, the one on my '78 Mercury I converted to 134a would get the inside of the car down into the 30`s and would actually ice up the top of the cast iron compressor.
"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

86 1/2 Brutus
In reply to this post by old55pete
Steve.  Wow, you getting temp's that low at idle? or do you have a shop fan blowing on the condenser for charging like we used to have to with R12?    You are using PAG 50 oil.  is this a FS6 compressor?
Nick and George
1986 1/2  F150 XLT Lariat 4X2  300 Six  - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 -  Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

86 1/2 Brutus
In reply to this post by Rusty_S85
we have had trouble with the blend door on this truck and some lincolns we had out of the 80's.  they are cheap plastic.  take the ploon out and do a repair on the blend door with small hinges and washers from the hardware store.  it will work like new again and never break
Nick and George
1986 1/2  F150 XLT Lariat 4X2  300 Six  - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 -  Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

86 1/2 Brutus
ill take some pics later today to show you what we did to the blend door
Nick and George
1986 1/2  F150 XLT Lariat 4X2  300 Six  - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 -  Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

86 1/2 Brutus
I am assuming that all of your conversions are with 80% 134a.   I've done quite a few and blew some compressor seals over charging.  134a has a much higher head preasure then r12.
Nick and George
1986 1/2  F150 XLT Lariat 4X2  300 Six  - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 -  Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

86 1/2 Brutus
Steve, every single thing in the ac system is brand new   condenser, evap, compressor, hoses, receiver drier, fixed orifice tube, cycling switch, expansion valve, even the blower motor
Nick and George
1986 1/2  F150 XLT Lariat 4X2  300 Six  - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 -  Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

FuzzFace2
In reply to this post by old55pete
old55pete wrote
The other thing I forgot to mention is that you have to change the clutch pressure switch on the receiver/ dryer to one that is for R134 as the pressures run different then they do for R12. That makes a big difference in the way the AC performs. Not meaning to sound mean or anything, but it sounds like someone did dident do a complete job when your system was converted to R134.
Steve, what switch (part number) are you using for 134a?
I looked up the switch for my truck, 81 factory AC, and for a 85 and both were for R12.
If I was to get one say for a mid 90's truck, should be 134a by then, I don't know if the plug would be the same as mine.
I also seen a post that mine might be adjustable, need to look when back in the garage, and just a vary little turn is needed.

Factory AC 300 / 4.9 trucks came with fan shrouds the non-AC trucks only had a fan guard on the top so you did not get eaten by the fan.
Because my truck was a mix of parts when I got it has I think has a 5 blade fixed fan.
I had to come up with the shroud and it made a big difference on the amount of air pulled thru the grille. BTW the radiator supports are for AC or non-AC trucks, I have an AC one.

The new condensers do not bolt in. You have to space it forward so even less room between it and the grille.
From what others have posted over the years on 134a change over I don't see any issues not having a pusher fan out front as long as you have a good fan & shroud.

Still working on getting my AC system together and working.
 I am this close .......... LOL
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

86 1/2 Brutus
In reply to this post by old55pete
Dont quote me on this yet, i am waiting to hear from my ac guy.  The clutch preasure switch would say is for r12 systems.  When you fill a 134a system you only fill to 80%  which gives you the same preasure.  Do not take my word on the switch yet, ill post as soon as i find out.  I need this info as well.   Filling the system to 80% is absolutely right though.  this part i know first hand.
Nick and George
1986 1/2  F150 XLT Lariat 4X2  300 Six  - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 -  Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

86 1/2 Brutus
I am also having issues with the expansion valve.  everything i find is for dealer ac and not factory ac.
Nick and George
1986 1/2  F150 XLT Lariat 4X2  300 Six  - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 -  Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Have you found the page at Documentation/HVAC/HVAC Systems?  It has the section from the 1985 factory shop manual on factory-installed A/C systems.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

86 1/2 Brutus
I have the whole set of books on the truck, all 5 of them.  they come in handy    If anybody needs anything i will be happy to send copies of whatever you need
Nick and George
1986 1/2  F150 XLT Lariat 4X2  300 Six  - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 -  Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new
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Re: Electric AC Condenser Fan

86 1/2 Brutus
As far as it goes for us right now.  I'm just asking the questions that i have some doubts about.  We haven't started installing anything yet.     All the ductwork is done and complete.  Once the dash goes back in we are going to get started on it.  Just want to get my ducks in a row if you know what i mean
Nick and George
1986 1/2  F150 XLT Lariat 4X2  300 Six  - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 -  Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new
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