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EFI or carbureted block?

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sgauvry

EFI or carbureted block?

Good morning gents!

First, let me apologize for the dumb question I am about to ask.

Are there differences, other than the lower intake manifold, in the engine block when it comes to operating an EFI system versus a carbureted system? Or is the block essentially the same, the only difference being the lower intake?

I ask because I have a remanufactured engine coming from S&J and it is listed as being for a carbureted system. It is the replacement for vehicles with an F,N serial number. The tech assures me the engine is the correct engine, but I still have concerns about that.

Will you please shed some light on this matter?

Thanks!!

Steve

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

Administrator

I can't tell. I put the block info from the master parts catalog up on the website (Engines/Windsor Series), as you can see on the "255 & 302" tab. There were yearly changes, but it doesn't say what they were. And since EFI came out in '85 on the 302 there's no way for me to know.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

sgauvry

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

Thanks, Gary! Guess I'll see when it gets here.

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

85lebaront2

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

Administrator

Steve, from what I remember on my son's 1986 F150, the block wasn't so much different as the heads, the early EFI heads had some of the worst flow characteristics of any heads Ford ever made for the 289/302 blocks. The 1994 up blocks have roller lifters and a one piece rear seal. Hopefully the heads on your replacement engine will be a better design part than the originals.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

sgauvry

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

Thanks, Bill!

Didn't know about the flow problems with the earlier heads. S&J Engines indicates the heads are new. They claim to correct design mistakes when they rebuild; I can hope that is the case. As long as my lower intake fits well and it all works as it should, no worries. While I have you, what do the markings on the top of the bell housing indicate? Year? Mine says "65".

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

85lebaront2

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

Administrator

Steve, the only thing I can think of would be a vestige in the forms for the castings. Ford changed the block for the 289 in 1965 from 5 bolts for the clutch/converter housing to 6 bolts. the "65" was probably to identify castings for the new bolt pattern which also accommodated a larger flywheel.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

sgauvry

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

OK! Thanks!!

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

Rembrant

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

85lebaront2 wrote

The 1994 up blocks have roller lifters and a one piece rear seal.

I think the 1pc rear main seal showed up on the 302 in 1983 didn't it? My 1984 302 has the 1pc rear main.

Wasn't there a change in the blocks for the vehicles that had serpentine belt systems? I could be wrong on that, but wasn't there a mounting boss cast in the RH side on blocks when the serp belts started being used? I thought I read that in one of my SBF books.

If re-using old harmonic balancer and flywheel, I'd want to make sure that the balance was correct (28oz or 50oz), although if the engine was ordered for anything newer than 1982-ish?, it should* be correct...

Is this new engine coming with a water pump? I guess you'd want to make sure the rotation was correct for V-belts or Serpentine.

If all of these ideas are bad craziness...then I apologize in advance. I've been driving myself crazy reading SBF stuff for months now...lol.

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

Administrator

Close on the 1-piece seal date. According to my favorite website the change to the new seal happened on 12/1/82. (Engines/Windsor Series)

Beyond that, I don't know.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rembrant

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

Gary Lewis wrote

Close on the 1-piece seal date. According to my favorite website the change to the new seal happened on 12/1/82. (Engines/Windsor Series)

I knew it was 1982 or 1983, but I wasn't sure which exactly. I know my '84 302 definitely has the 1pc rear main. The SBF book I have said that the 1pc rear main seal didn't show up until 1985.

I find the internet is full of erroneous information on the 302...it can be a bit difficult when trying to find out specific details. The lower head bolts on my '84 302 go through into the coolant jacket...which, according to the internet, is a change that didn't show up until they started casting the roller blocks. Anyway, it is what it is. We could all be driving Chevys...lol.

Is it safe to assume the new/reman engine has a flat tappet cam in it?

85lebaront2

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

Administrator

I am not super conversant with the "newer" Windsor blocks, other than a 1990 Lincoln Town Car which I never even had to replace a water pump on, most of my experience is 260-289 engines and one 1970 1/2 Falcon 302 that sort of morphed into a 1965 289 4V top end with 351W exhaust manifolds so I could run duals on it. It also had a 351 HO C6 behind it.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

sgauvry

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

In reply to this post by Rembrant

I have a one piece rear main seal on my 1985 302.

I've had concerns about the harmonic balancer, and what weight I should get, or if I can even use my old one. I've read that it is a good thing to replace them if going to a remanufactured engine. I'll need to see what the specs are on this thing before I buy one. The only spec I now have are that the engine is .040" over w/ a .010"/.010" crankshaft.

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

Administrator

What I read says that in 1981 Ford changed the 302 from using a 28 ounce balancer/flywheel combo to a 50 ounce pair. You can read that at Hot Rod as well as Ken Blythen's comment here. And lots of other places.

So, I think you need to clarify this with your engine supplier as it depends on what crank they used. You need both a balancer and a flywheel that have to match - either 28.2 ounce or 50 ounce. For your truck it should be 50 ounce or you'll have to replace both the flywheel and the balancer.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

sgauvry

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

Something else I didn't consider, but it makes sense for sure.

Thanks!!

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

sgauvry

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Hi Gary -
I don't have a scale that will register the weight but I am fairly confident the existing flywheel is considerably lighter that the existing harmonic balancer, just from handling them both. From what I've read in the Hot Rod link you sent to me, that's pretty scary and may explain a lot about my previous engine.

If I understand all of this correctly, I must check again with the manufacturer to see what type of crank they used. The type of crank will determine the weight of the harmonic balancer and flywheel.

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

Administrator

Steve - It isn't the actual weight of the balancer or flywheel, but the imbalance of them. To put it another way, the rotating assembly is out of balance, and they make up for that by using flywheel and balancer combo that have weights on a spot on them.

Look at your flywheel - it should have a weight welded to it in one spot. And your balancer probably has one spot that is thicker on its rim.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

sgauvry

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

Yes, it is as you say.

I have found out that the engine has a 2MAE lightweight crank which will require a 50 oz balancer. Thanks for the information.

Thought the balancer felt much heavier than 28 or 50 ounces. Now I know why - and I feel dumber than a pump handle...

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI or carbureted block?

Administrator

You are just learning. And, we are all learning - just different things. Or, at least I hope I'm learning.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile