Dual Exhaust Idea

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Dual Exhaust Idea

Bulletproof250
 I was adjusting the doors on the truck the other day, with the fenders off I noticed that the header flanges are actually above the frame. Yes, not a bunch, but it did get me to thinking how I might get the exhaust tubing, up and over the front portion of the frame, before the firewall and Cab-Mount. This would allow for running the exhaust outside of the frame on each side, and for me ending at the cab corner or just after it. I did search the forum, looking for other dual exhaust systems and wondered who else might have considered this approach, and if they did, were there any pictures. I imagine that a set of SBF/302/Mustang, Shorty headers may gain me a little more space above the frame to make the bend out. Yes, if flow is my main HP Gain this would not help, but until I'm running 400HP+ I doubt this is too much of an impact.


  
Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44HD Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD NP208 Transfer Case, 4-Speed Warner T-18..
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)

-Teach your Kids to Fish, Hunt, or get them into Cars, and they'll never have the time or money for drugs.
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

kramttocs
Administrator
Can't say I've seen them on a Bullnose but Fender Exit headers are common for the earlier gen trucks.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Bulletproof250
Thanks Scott, I'll search a bit for ideas on the earlier models.
Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44HD Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD NP208 Transfer Case, 4-Speed Warner T-18..
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)

-Teach your Kids to Fish, Hunt, or get them into Cars, and they'll never have the time or money for drugs.
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

BLES
In reply to this post by Bulletproof250
Like this?

There would be plenty of room to run one pipe, but might take some creativity to make it happen. This is four 2" pipes exiting over the frame in that area, to run down the outside of the frame.
'83 2wd shortbed F100
502 stroker/C6
Saskatchewan, Canada
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Bulletproof250
Fender exit headers are a thing but I don't know if I'd want them close enough to the floor to go over your nerf steps.
They will definitely get the floor hot over there.
Are you thinking no mufflers at all???
Because there's certainly not any room behind the rockers, and you have the steps...
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Bulletproof250
Thanks for the inputs,

Although the Nerf Steps are there, they are quite a bit lower than the frame. The frame rail is actually about the centerline of the tubes diameter and I don't see a problem with those. As for mufflers, I thought of this too when I was installing a new Thrush muffler on the truck and it seemed like it could be rather tucked up there under the floor. That being the case, I do have some small concerns about the heat in the floor, or behind the rocker and some fabricated aluminum heat shields over those sections, may be the way to mitigate some excessive heat.

I looked into "over the Frame" headers and confirmed this was way outside of the budget I had for the project. Also I plan to go with a larger tire size eventually, with not too much lift, and the size of 4 tubes running on the inner-corner of the fender well, isn't encouraging when regarding tire-clearance.

I guess we'll see, I pulled the trigger on some "Cheap" (<$150) Shorty-302 headers and I'll see how it looks, worst case I could send 'em back and abort the mission. I'll do my best to remember and take lots of Pics.

What the sound?
Any opinions on mufflers? I love the deep throaty sound but live in the suburbs, and do like my neighbors, I was thinking that 2½" Flowmaster 50 Delta flows, on each side were a nice middle ground, has anyone run these on a stock 351W? or have a preference, I could look at as well?
p.s. not a daily driver but I roll-out run early in the morning on the weekend

Thanks,
Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44HD Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD NP208 Transfer Case, 4-Speed Warner T-18..
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)

-Teach your Kids to Fish, Hunt, or get them into Cars, and they'll never have the time or money for drugs.
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I like the sound from Magnaflow muffs better than that of the Flowmasters.  I think they are deeper and quieter.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Bulletproof250
I'd definitely put heat shields in.
What I'm saying is the cab moves on the frame. The motor mounts allow the engine to torque in the frame.
And whatever exhaust you come up with is going to move with the engine.
Which might be going a different direction than the cab (depending on how crossed up you are, and how much torque you apply)

You're the one looking at it. I don't really know how much room you have.
But I much appreciate you being respectful of your neighbors
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

85lebaront2
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Jim, you are probably old enough to remember the cruciform frame GM products, I know Gary is since he owned a W head Chevy. The exhaust on those went under the frame front kickup then followed the lines of the frame with the mufflers near the front and when the exhaust system got to the rear up and over the axle and straight or angled for exit. The hangers were behind the mufflers at the front so the weight of the mufflers pulled down on the pipes.

The real fun was watching a more powerful engine (348/409) twist on the flimsy mounts and bring the left side muffler up against the floor and nearly drag the right side on the ground.

The point here is the further out the pipes run, the greater the movement under load. Sometime I will see if I can do a good drawing of what I designed for my 1977 F150 when I put the 390 in it. Another option is to look at what Ford did with the mid 1984 - 1987 460s where it is dual to the muffler.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yup.  My '58 Impala w/a 348 had huge torque and that caused two problems: the exhaust hitting the body if it wasn't positioned correctly, and the carrier bearing in the driveshaft, which I could lay over easily.  On the other hand, I could come out on the clutch in first at idle, shift to second, and idle down the street at 550 RPM and 17 MPH.  Dad's '60 283 wouldn't even think about moving in first at idle.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
I understand exactly why a greater distance from centerline means swinging a bigger arc.
(And why mud trucks with fenderwell headers have plate mounted engines)

 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Bulletproof250
All Good inputs. I had thought about the movement of the motor, but I may have under estimated how much that it could be. I though of a "Flex-Piper" connection on each side, but if the engine moves too much it may need more than that.

As for heat shielding has anyone with with the materials from these guys?


Heat Shield Products

keep the ides flowing :-)
Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44HD Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD NP208 Transfer Case, 4-Speed Warner T-18..
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)

-Teach your Kids to Fish, Hunt, or get them into Cars, and they'll never have the time or money for drugs.
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Bulletproof250
Gary,

I was only going on this write up (
Magnaflow vs Flowmaster) it sounded that the Flowmaster was a better choice but that's all I have to go on.

  
Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44HD Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD NP208 Transfer Case, 4-Speed Warner T-18..
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)

-Teach your Kids to Fish, Hunt, or get them into Cars, and they'll never have the time or money for drugs.
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Gary Lewis
Administrator
All I know is that I had a Flowmaster that made a 351W sound flatulent.  I installed a Magnaflow and it was much deeper and quieter.  Can't tell you which models, but I've used Magnaflow since.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Bulletproof250
I'm not familiar with the product, but I am opposed to the braided/woven wrap type insulation.

That looks good, but at what price?
I would probably go with a piece of stainless smoke pipe cut in half and mounted on standoffs.
But I'm a cheap old bastard and set in my ways.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Bulletproof250
Thanks Jim,

I'm not a fan of the "Wrap" approach to headers either. I was thinking of building my own with some aluminum sheet and , you beat me to it, "Standoffs". I also do not see a need to spend big money on performance .... if your handy

Thanks for the input.
Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44HD Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD NP208 Transfer Case, 4-Speed Warner T-18..
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)

-Teach your Kids to Fish, Hunt, or get them into Cars, and they'll never have the time or money for drugs.
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I saw some stainless snap lock pipe at WinSupply a while back and thought to myself 'it would be real easy to cut that with a zip disc opposite the seam and get two 180° sections out of it'

But if you have a way to roll aluminium, then you've already got a handle on it.

Definitely want to see what you come up with!  
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Bulletproof250
Haven't forgotten,

Quick update:
Headers have arrived no dents looks like a great start.

I doubt i'll have any action for a few weeks at least
Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44HD Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD NP208 Transfer Case, 4-Speed Warner T-18..
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)

-Teach your Kids to Fish, Hunt, or get them into Cars, and they'll never have the time or money for drugs.
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Bulletproof250
Alright still no real updates, obviously not a critical element in my life

but I have started to think ahead of the project and seeing the need to consider "de-smogging" the engine while installing the headers.



In combination with this I realized I would be , and at that point, eliminating the Air Pump, replacing it with another "Air" pump (I've planned to add a York-style, on-board compressor) and I though that the Emissions pump location might serve that purpose well, by fabricating the right mounting bracket.
Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44HD Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD NP208 Transfer Case, 4-Speed Warner T-18..
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)

-Teach your Kids to Fish, Hunt, or get them into Cars, and they'll never have the time or money for drugs.
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Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
The thermactor port at the back of each head will take a 5/8-11 bolt when you remove the air injection crossover pipe.
This bolt should be really short (like 1/2") so you're going to cut down a bolt that has threads to the head.
I'm pretty sure Gary has recommended using a metal crush washer to seal them.
Those you can find in the HELP! section, for drain plugs.
5/8 is about = to 16mm
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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