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Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

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Ford F834

Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

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https://shop.broncograveyard.com/mobile/80-97-F250-Stage-1-D50-TTB-Front-Leaf-Spring-Delete-Kit/productinfo/337800/

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

Gary Lewis

Re: Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

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I like it, except for three things:

$2855!?!?!? Granted it should ride better, in theory, than a D60 with SD springs, but that combo will come in closer to $2k. And, it is a bit stronger.

No bushings: The Sky kit is available with Heim joints, and when I asked Erik about that he said it is "For those who just have to have them". But, he went on to say that the ride will suffer and there will be more vibration. So he didn't recommend them. And this kit has no bushings at all that I can see, as opposed to the bushings in the spring eyes and shackles that the D60 Sky kit has.

D50: Do they also have it for a D44HD? My limited understanding is that the D50 was in the Supercabs and Crewcabs above 8500 GVWR, or in a regular cab over an even higher GVWR. But the vast majority of the F250's I've seen have had the D44HD.

I've come to the conclusion that if I were in the market for a 4wd F250 I'd buy an '85 or '86 F350 instead.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

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In reply to this post by Ford F834

Now, if something like that for a live axle, I might (if I completely lost all vestiges of common sense) think about doing a 4WD conversion on Darth, probably with a divorced transfer case like the military trucks used.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

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Why a divorced t-case?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary, I agree that the price is pretty steep. It does include a $350 core for the axle, I believe, but then there is freight on that sucker both directions. It would be interesting to hear a comparison of the ride quality vs. a SAS with SD springs. The one advantage I can think of would be greater travel and articulation. I don’t see why they couldn’t do a D44HD, but my guess is they might have you modify your own axle and return it to you. I think the assumption is that if you go to all the trouble of converting to coils you would want to upgrade to D50 if it didn’t have that already. Seems to me this product was designed for 4x4 enthusiasts who really prefer IFS over a straight axle but want more beef than 1/2 ton stuff. There was a guy on Facebook that claimed to have made his own for around $800 in parts, but obviously you have to be good at fabrication:

Gary Lewis

Re: Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

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I understand the desire to upgrade from the D44HD. The difference in the u-joint sizes between that and the D60 is significant, and I assume the D50's joints are bigger than the 44's. And the axle shafts themselves are bigger. But while I think the advantages of the TTB's ride and articulation would be appreciated, wouldn't you still have the reduced turning radius as opposed to SAS?

As for cost, one thing I didn't think about in this is the cost of the D50 front end itself. If you have a truck with a D44HD then you'd have to add the cost of the D50 components to the $2,855 in order to get a fair comparison to the $2,000 for the D60.

But Clayton Paul's conversion is interesting as it could be done for either a D44HD or a D50. I think. I don't know what he had to do about shock mounting, but it is really a pretty straight forward conversion. However, I don't like the way he mounted the end of the radius arm to the frame. Ford says not to weld to the flange of the frame as it weakens it. And all of their mounts are fastened to the web as well as the flange. So I wouldn't do it as he did. But otherwise it looks good.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

Why a divorced t-case?

I don't know Bill's specific reason, but generally the "benefit" to divorced transfer cases is that they use a 2WD transmission. I put "benefit" in quotes because it really isn't a benefit if you are sourcing a new trans anyway (just get a 4WD trans to start with). But it is a plus if you have a lot into your current 2WD trans and want to keep it.

As to the coil spring TTB Dana 50 being worth 3 grand, it sure isn't to me. But for people who want a prerunner-style suspension that can go fast in the desert, coil spring TTB is about the best you can do in a 4WD. And for that type of use compliant bushings are undesirable. People who are pushing those boundaries are very willing to give up some vibration and harshness for the precision and ruggedness of heim joints.

Bob
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
"Oswald": 1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
"Pluto": 1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
"the motorhome": 2015 E-450-based 28' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
"the Dodge": 2007 Dodge 2500, 6.7L Cummins

Gary Lewis

Re: Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

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So a number of the Jeeps seen in those videos are probably running Heim joints? Many of them look to have pretty serious suspension systems.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

The most serious dedicated rock buggies do. While coil sprung (coilover actually) TTB is about the best there is for 4WD prerunner suspension, in rock crawling the ultimate setup is a "link" suspension with heim joints and coilovers. Links with heims give very free articulation and the possibility of gobs of travel with no axle-wrap (axle wrap can (figuratively at least) kill you in the rocks when you are getting on the gas in low-low with 100:1 torque multiplication). And coilovers let you realize the possibility of gobs of travel. The down-side is more harshness due to the lack of any compliant bushings. For that reason some street/rock vehicles will run urethane bushings, or "Johnnie Joints", a sort of hybrid urethane bushed spherical ball joint (developed by John Currie), giving most of the off-road benefit of links and heims while not giving up all of the harshness-dampening qualities of factory rubber bushings. A lot of the Jeeps in the videos we've been looking at in my trip report thread are probably somewhat street oriented, so I wouldn't be surprised if they have some bushings somewhere. But yes, they are pretty serious!

85lebaront2

Re: Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

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In reply to this post by Nothing Special

The other benefit from my standpoint would be driveshaft length. My current rear shaft is two piece, one is about 3' long, the other is probably about 6' long. There is a center support on the crossmember that carries the bearing. If I were to rebuild my E4OD and add the transfer case and adapter, well, Gary can measure the overall length. You end up with a very short connecting shaft or a rather long rear drive shaft (remember Darth is a crew cab so is 35" longer than a standard cab long bed). My though was like the USMC trucks I used to drive and work on. Other than the M38 and M151, they all had divorced transfer cases. If I were to install a divorced transfer case where the rear shaft area coincided with the existing center support bearing, or maybe a little forward I lose the off center weight on the rear of my transmission, lessening the chance of breaking the adapter, I gain a longer front drive shaft which will tolerate more suspension travel. The only concern would be possibly having to make a modified transmission crossmember to allow the front drive shaft plenty of room.

Best option, find a late enough rolled Super Duty 4WD dually and get all the running gear less the powertrain from it, that way I would also have the late 4 wheel disk brakes. These trucks use a Dana 60 live axle with radius arms and coil springs.

Gary, just an interesting observation, looking at the front suspension information on Matt's 2002 Excursion, the spring setup looks an awful lot like the kit you installed on BB.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

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Bill - That makes sense. I know the E4OD is loooooong, so I understand the issue with the driveshafts. And placing the t-case where the carrier bearing is a good idea.

As for Matt's Excursion, it might be sporting U-code springs, which is what I have. But some of them have the stiffer V-codes. I'm hoping the U's work as that will give better articulation.

Speaking of that, I'd not thought about the front driveshaft and how placement of the t-case figures into the angle thereof. Good thinking!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

D50ttb

Re: Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

In reply to this post by Ford F834

New guy here digging up the past.

This is a good topic of conversation and one of the many reasons I joined up....,

Anyhooo I was wondering if this "bronco" swap could be done with intergenerational parts instead of the costly kit?

I know most people have moved on to
sas d60 set ups, but... I've got a combination of parts I intend to try to use.

My parts truck is 82 f250hd
Dana 50 high pinion ttb

My goal is to add 4 wheel drive to my 89 f350 srw crew cab 460 5 speed.

I believe I can modify the coil spring stuff to accept ttb, so essentially budget minded sameular end goal as "bronco" kit with the difference being lift coils and modified beams and race car stuff.

Has anyone completed a swap with stock parts?

Should I attempt something like this?

If I do would you'all be interested in a write up?

Is it taboo reference non bull nose?

What are your thoughts?

OKC junk truck addict

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

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We've got no problems with discussing trucks outside '80-'86.
I've got a Bricknose, Bob's got a 9X something and Cory has a '52...

I don't think it's possible with stock parts.
But as you see it has been done

No TTB is set up for radius arms, and coils can't locate your axle front to back.
Which is why leaf sprung TTB's have so little travel and such stiff springs.

Also note if you're thinking of doing a divorced transfer case you will have problems with that front driveshaft clearing the cross member.

If you're going to jump into this please start a thread in the Projects section.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

D50ttb

Re: Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

Jim,

Thanks, I will definitely start a new page if I go that route. I guess I'll dig a little deeper and try to find some specific examples.

And I also have a 52... Kinda, small window.

It's a 48 with a 52 nose.
I call it
"the little train that just don't give a darn"

OKC junk truck addict

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Dana 50 TTB coil conversion from Bronco Graveyard

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From the weld discoloration in the JBG kit above id imagine you need a way to jig the lower ball joints when you cut them loose from the beams.

The drop pivots and radius arm mounts appear to be cut with self aligning slots and tabs.
Doesn't really show enough of the welding to the back of the axle to scale where exactly they attach.

There was a thread not long ago linked to a desert racer who did some really beautiful fabrication to his TTB.
I think it was a thread on FSB.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.