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Converting to mass air on the 5.0

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ScubaSteve

Converting to mass air on the 5.0

I’m thinking of converting my truck to mass air. If anyone has any advice or experience on the subject I would like to hear it.

1986 F150, XLT Lariat, 5.8, AOD, 8.8 limited slip, 4.10 gears

Gary Lewis

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

No true experience. But I’m planning to convert Big Blue to EEC-V, which is mass air and sequential injection. However, I’m going from a carb to that. In your case I would think that the main issue will be the wiring harness & ECU.

But, the first question will be whether you are going EEC-IV or V. I think, but could easily be wrong, that some of the IV’s were mass air on the 5.0. If that is true then that would greatly simplify the problem for you. (I know Steve83 recently corrected me on this topic, but was it for just the 460 or for all engines?)

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

1994 5.0L automatic transmission engines were Mass Air, 1995 5.8L automatic transmission engines were mass air. 1996 everything went mass air except the 7.5L engines, but some California automatic transmission models were mass air.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

Bill - Which of those were EEC-IV? Wouldn't it be far easier for him to convert to mass air that way than to convert to EEC-V?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ScubaSteve

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

In reply to this post by ScubaSteve

I’m looking at a kit like this one but if I knew what components to find at a salvage yard I could probably save a lot of money.
https://shop.fiveologyracing.com/FORD-F-SERIES-MASS-AIR-CONVERSION-SMALL-BLOCK_c7.htm

1986 F150, XLT Lariat, 5.8, AOD, 8.8 limited slip, 4.10 gears

85lebaront2

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

You can find most if not all of it can be found in a junkyard. fiveologyracing is packaging what is basically Mustang parts. If you have the AOD it will work great and even the 4R70/75W will work with it as the Mustang automatics were either AOD or 4R70/75Ws.

The 1994 up automatic 5.0L and 1995 up 5.8L both came with MAF/SEFI, so they should be reasonably common in junkyards. Just keep in mind, up through 1995 they are EEC-IV, 1996 models are EEC-V and a lot of the stuff including the EEC is different. If you find one in a junkyard, grab all the wiring you can, better to have stuff you don't need than find you need something later.

The injector firing order will need to be changed as 1994 up 5.0L and all 5.8L use a different firing order (13726548 instead of 15426378).

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ScubaSteve

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

If I do this I was thinking about a cam swap to HO cam. That would correct the firing order correct?

1986 F150, XLT Lariat, 5.8, AOD, 8.8 limited slip, 4.10 gears

85lebaront2

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

Yes, that is the HO firing order. It is also all 5.8L engines.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Steve83

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Banned User

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

ScubaSteve wrote

I’m thinking of converting my truck to mass air.

Why, exactly?

ScubaSteve wrote

If anyone has any advice or experience on the subject I would like to hear it.

Simply swapping to MAF probably won't make enough difference to justify the cost & effort, or even to actually notice. MAF was more for emissions compliance than performance, and there are probably as many performance gains available for a MAP as a MAF (if that's what you're after).

My advice, based on personal experience a few times (with other vehicles/engines) is: buy the newest wreck with the engine & management system you want, and drop the whole mess (as complete as possible, including ALL the emissions controls) into your truck as a full factory system. Then drive the hell out of it!

It'll run better, last longer, and be easier/cheaper to maintain than any mixture of old/new factory/aftermarket that you might come up with. The best donor for a 5.0L is the ~02 Explorer/Mountaineer, which is MAF EDIS OBD-II; and they're typically DIRT-cheap (moreso right after cash-for-clunkers, but even now).

Gary Lewis wrote

I think, but could easily be wrong, that some of the IV’s were mass air on the 5.0.

I compiled this diagram from all the '92-96 EVTMs, and several editions of Haynes:

Unfortunately, I know it's still not complete. But what it shows is correct.

85lebaront2

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

I will second Steve83's comments, the 1985.5-1986 heads are some of the worst ever installed on the small Windsor (221-302) engines, the Explorer 5.0L engines got the GT40 heads for the first few years then went to GT40P heads. They breath a lot better, but, even your 1986 cast iron exhaust manifolds are better than the original "headers" for the Explorer, due to chassis constraints they have several "choke points" where they had to squeeze past other items.

One thing, at the absolute minimum, you are going to have to remove the upper plenum just to get at the engine portion of the EFI harness, the right side is buried under it. One other issue you will find, the 1986 air filter has no way to insert the MAF sensor and the 1986 body does not have provision for the later airfilter housing, all that will need some work, Gary is seeing that on Big Blue.

You could, as Steve83 pointed out just drop a later system in, and stay with the MAP sensor. Unless you are planning on a hotter cam, speed density works quite well, we had a 1990 Lincoln Town Car with a speed density, sequential EFI system, which also had some very nice stainless steel exhaust headers. FWIW, the 5.0L truck intake is actually pretty damn good and was used essentially unchanged through 1996. The Explorer intake is quite good, and if you eliminate the 90° elbow between the throttle body and plenum, it is basically like a Mustang intake.

Biggest thing with the 5.0L in a truck, it lacks torque at low rpm which a truck needs much more than a car, you are dealing with something that weighs almost twice what a Mustang does. I told a good friend who had, at the time two F150s, one was a 4.9L 1986, the other a 5.0L 1994, both automatics. He was building a house in Charlotte County VA, and going up weekends from Newport News VA while doing this, he asked me which was the better choice to keep and use. I told him the 94 with the overdrive automatic and V8 was a better highway truck, if he needed to haul or drag something, the 6 was superior.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Steve83

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Banned User

This post was updated on .

85lebaront2 wrote

...remove the upper plenum just to get at the engine portion of the EFI harness, the right side is buried under it.

I haven't actually messed with an Explorer 5.0L, but I was able to get my big hands under the nearly-identical 5.8L plenum to disconnect the injectors.

Here, you can see all the way through that channel:

85lebaront2 wrote

...the 1986 body does not have provision for the later airfilter housing...

I didn't have much trouble fitting the '87-95 MAP air filter to my '83.

The '94-96 MAF filter fits identically.

85lebaront2 wrote

You could, as Steve83 pointed out just drop a later system in, and stay with the MAP sensor.

I was actually talking about keeping the original stock MAP system. It wasn't changed (other than EEC programming) through '95 (optionally).

85lebaront2 wrote

Biggest thing with the 5.0L in a truck, it lacks torque at low rpm which a truck needs much more than a car, you are dealing with something that weighs almost twice what a Mustang does.

But I think the 5.0Ls from Explorers are built with truck cams - not Mustang/Mk.VIII cams.

Gary Lewis

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

Steve - Your pic of the under-hood area on your truck answered a question for me. I was wondering of I'll be able to use the 85/86 coolant recovery bottle in its original location when I convert Big Blue to EEC-V. But you used a later one turned sideways, presumably to get the extra front/rear clearance. Right?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

In reply to this post by Steve83

First, 5.8 L is taller and wider than the 5.0 L, therefore more room between the valve covers, second, 5.0 L EGR tube (easily broken) comes out of the center of the intake (where the carbureted crossover would be) so it is not possible to reach all the way through.

Air filter, it may surprise you to know how much research I did before doing my EFI conversion on my 1986 460. First thing I ran into was computers, MAF 460s are extremely rare, one fellow actually called the computer for them a Unicorn, I replied be posting a picture of an actual FEZ3 EEC-V box I have. If you have a manual transmission, or a C6, you can adapt a 5.0 L or 5.8 L MAF EEC to it, but you need some sort of piggyback tuner, such as a Moates quarter-horse or TwEECer to change the firing order, cyl. volume and injector size. If, as I planned on, you are using an E4OD, you have to have an EEC that will control it. The 4R70/75W EECs are not interchangeable with the E4OD ones. There are 5.0 L EECs that will work, primarily Bronco ones. I had obtained a WAY1 EEC and wiring when I first started the evolution. Plan changed when I spent over 6 months trying to find some information on setting up the shift points on the E4OD, I didn't really want to be buzzing a 460 up like a 302, second I wanted to stay in lockup on the converter as much as possible. E4OD converters are really bad about heat generation.

Since my front sheet metal was pretty bad due to the previous owner parking by feel, and I had bought a 1990 F250 parts truck (the owner delivered it to my house for $845.00), I planned on just swapping the front doghouse. I had obtained a couple of extra front harnesses and originally was going to use the 1987-1991 style harness system. This also solved the air filter issue. While I was working on the plan, I found a 1992 F150 and was able to get the front harness from it, I later got a 1995 dash from pick and pull, went back the next day and got the harness I had removed and left. The primary reason I went that way was the greatly improved power distribution that started in 1992. After starting to fit the 1990 harness, and finding that if I wanted to go SEFI there were not enough pins available in the 4 X 8 pin body to engine connections.

At this point I was still planning on using the WAY1 EEC and a TwEECer I had bought, after posting on EEC Tuner.org, I was contacted by Adam Marrer, POPS Racing about using an EEC-V. These do not need a piggyback tuner as they are reflashable. He sold me a package that included a 1996 5.8 L EEC-V since they use the E4OD, software, Mongoose Pro pass through cable and tech support. I built a bench flash rig and using a small 12V battery as a buffer and a trickle charger, we did a hands on tutorial. I am still refining the program, the EVAP system changed from a CANP system to a VMV system, and there was a glitch in the code that makes the EEC think there is a wiring issue. It seems corrected now.

I have a complete 1996 interior in Darth except for Lincoln Continental bucket seats, I also switched rear doors so I have complete 4 door power windows and locks. Now I need to find a lightning speedometer, as Darth has been capable for years of running well past 85 mph.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary, here is the way Darth's coolant recovery/washer fluid reservoir sits:

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

Bill - Thanks. But you, like Steve, chose to use the later coolant recovery reservoir. Is there a reason?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

Gary, in my case it is the one that came with the 1990 parts truck, I just put the entire "doghouse" from the 1990 on Darth. One reason I can think of, try adding coolant to the older reservoirs.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

Bill - Thanks, that makes sense. And I understand what you mean about adding coolant through the small hole in the older reservoirs.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

Yes, small funnel or turkey baster come to mind.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Steve83

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Banned User

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Gary Lewis wrote

...you used a later one turned sideways, presumably to get the extra front/rear clearance. Right?

I used the donor engine's original air filter in its original location, relative to the engine (because the intake hoses are nearly rigid, so that's where it has to be to fit). That filter bracket goes where the older coolant/washer tank was, so I couldn't keep that old tank (or the old tool box or aux.batt. tray). And the new filter bracket is built to hold the new tank, which I also got, so I just swapped it all at the same time.

85lebaront2 wrote

First, 5.8 L is taller and wider than the 5.0 L, therefore more room between the valve covers...

I don't think it's enough to make a difference, but don't remember trying on the only 5.0L swap I've done.

85lebaront2 wrote

..second, 5.0 L EGR tube...comes out of the center of the intake...so it is not possible to reach all the way through.

But you could still reach in from the front, and then from the back.

Gary Lewis

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

Yes, the tubes are rigid. I have the full set for the 460 mass air setup, and the air cleaner is going right where yours is. I even kept the driver's fender from the donor so I'd know where the air cleaner really goes. And, I'll have the power distribution box, like you have, behind the air cleaner, so space is tight and I'll probably use the later reservoir as well.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile