Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

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Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

Bulletproof250
OK so I've done some research on the site and I found the listing that Gary has kindly referred to as confusing:



this chart also brings me to question if my F250 is a F250 HD? After all, It DOES have LH lugs on one side of the rear axle.

Now It started when I was given an old set of American Racing Outlaw 2's, off of 1989 Centurion. I'm pretty sure that they'll fit. Although, when I looked at the lug holes and noticed there is no taper for conical seating Lug nuts, I questioned what special fasteners American Racing maybe trying to have me purchase. A look at the AR website got me even more confused as they don't even show a listing for Outlaw 2s for anything for than the E250 Van and the F150 of the 1984 vintage.

Can anyone help direct me to what piece of the puzzle that I might be missing here, I have confirmed the lugs on my truck are definitely conical seat.

Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44 Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD Transfer Case? 4-Speed Warner T-18
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

salans7
According to that listing, my 1986 F250 LD Semi-Floating Sterling Axle should have 1/2-20 lug studs but it definitely has 9/16-18 lug studs. Definitely confusing.

If there is no taper, that makes me wonder if the lug holes weren't drilled out in a past life. Maybe the wheels aren't 8x6.5 (8x165.1) and are some other size? Check the back of the wheel, the lug pattern may be cast into the wheel somewhere.
-Shaun
1980/86/90 Ford F350 4x4 351W/NP435/Sterling
2003 Ford Ranger V6/M5OD/8.8
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

Bulletproof250
Thanks Shuan,

I'll check it our and see what I find. I did find some Lugs on Summit that are 0.74 diameter shanks that fit through the lug holes and seat with flat washers and they make them in LH thread too, so that's promising.
Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44 Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD Transfer Case? 4-Speed Warner T-18
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

grumpin
What’s the GVWR on the door sticker?
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1997 Mazda 626 LX 2.0L G25M-R
1998 Suburban LT K2500 454 4L80E
Oregon
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Bulletproof250
Tapered nuts are for 'lug centric' wheels (like stock steelies)

Flat nuts are for 'hub centric' wheels.
Which obviously fit tight and center onto the hub.

There may be some odd wheels that have flat counterbores that take a very specific OD lug nut.
But, man, I wouldn't want to try and get those off after a year of mud or salt.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

85lebaront2
My dually and I suspect Jim's F250 use the floating washer design nuts but may take the conical nuts. I have seen both styles on the Sterling and Dana HD 250s. My best friend has a 1995 F350 dually and it has the hub centric wheels and uses a 1 1/16 hex floating washer nuts. His 2003 E250 has the 1 1/6 conical nuts which can be a royal PITA to get loose as the cone seems to "pinch" at the inner end.

Wheel material does not seem to be the reason for the difference, Darth came with all steel hub centric wheels and the floating washer nuts, the wheels also have pins on the bolt circle area as do the hubs, both front and rear. On the rear, this forces the tire valves to be 180° apart. The Ford Alcoa wheels do the same, although I believe the front wheels do not have the pin as they are location specific, front being made with a different offset than the rears due to the thickness difference between steel and aluminum wheels.

Even here where we don't get anywhere near the road salt that is used up North, the front ones can be a PITA to get loose from the hubs.
Bill
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Bill,
I don't have a dually, so I don't have a use for locating pins.
These keep inner and outer 'clocked'

I have steelies and type 3 dog dish hub caps.
I did buy NOS Ford conical lug nuts from U-Haul's eBay store.
They were correct, something under a buck each + $4.99 shipping.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

Bulletproof250
My buddy that i got the wheels from was able to dig up 16 of the Lug Nuts, WITH washers! So I've got 1 pair of wheels ready, With these Lug nuts I've found the dimensions for the others the only ones that I can find are Made by Gorilla  and approximately $4/Nut+washer. AR was no Help I've seen no email for such an easy request, I would have imagined they would have a part number handy, oh well.
Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44 Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD Transfer Case? 4-Speed Warner T-18
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Well, you're halfway there!

$64 worth of lug nuts though..,.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

FoxFord33
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
Tire shop is my current job.

The cone-seats are most common, but there are the shanks with washers, and they usually still have cones on the lug nuts for use with a steel spare wheel. (Also, Honda has a ball seat that is really the best, but I digress...) If your wheels have no chamfer to accommodate the cone seats, then you really need the washer and shank type. There ought to be a less expensive one out there, but they are usually used on Toyota nowadays. Maybe the Toyota ones can fit?  Is the thread pattern Metric or Merican? If Metric, maybe a Toyota style can be found for cheaper? I don't know, but maybe some info to search for you...

Edit: I realized that if your truck has its original parts, it will definitely be Merican (SAE) sizing, so probably no dice on the Toyota stuff... and especially Left Hand Thread...
A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Daily Driving and working on it!
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

Bulletproof250
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
ArdWrknTrk wrote
Well, you're halfway there!

$64 worth of lug nuts though..,.
You go that right Jim!

Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44 Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD Transfer Case? 4-Speed Warner T-18
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

Bulletproof250
In reply to this post by grumpin
Dane,

The Door sticker shows 8600 GVWR, is this considered an F250 HD?
Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44 Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD Transfer Case? 4-Speed Warner T-18
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Not Grumpin, but yes.
8,500 is the cut off.
If you have a full floating rear axle (sticks out of the drum & has 8 lugs) it is HD.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

Bulletproof250
ArdWrknTrk wrote
8,500 is the cut off.
If you have a full floating rear axle (sticks out of the drum & has 8 lugs) it is HD.
Yes tthat's what I have, does that make the front axle a Dana 44 HD?

If so, do you know if the Rear is in-fact a Dana 60 then?
Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44 Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD Transfer Case? 4-Speed Warner T-18
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
If you have left hand lug nuts and have to pull the axles to remove the brake drums it is Dana 60.

The D44hd was found on most 250's
If you have a supercab, and/or the hubs are straight (like a can of baked beans, the same size lockouts as 350's) not tapered, then it is a D50.

But most likely D44hd.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

85lebaront2
Jim, 84 should be a Dana, Sterlings didn't start until 85.
Bill
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
This post was updated on .
Bill, I was just pointing Alex/Bulletproof250 to the at a glance 'tells' for Dana 60.
(Much as I did to distinguish D44HD from D50)

Was a running change for the '85 model year.
Usually seen as '85 1/2....   😉
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.